2Nama-sankirtana preached by Maha Visnu or Lord Caitanya Himself?

[Guest guest]

However, if we

> take the term broadly to mean the process leading at least to prema bhakti in

> Vaikuntha, then it is true. This can apply even in this Kali yuga. Srila

> Prabhupada did not come only to save those rasika souls who "fell" from

> Goloka. He also came to save other souls who "fell" from Vaikuntha.

 

"Golokera prema donna, hari-nama-sankirtana" - all who take part in "Hari Nama"

get that love of Krishna from Goloka Vrindavana.

It is also stated in Jaiva Dharma, I think, or if not there, another

authoritative source, that denizens of Vaikuntha willingly take birth during

this time to get Lord Chaitanya's mercy to elevate them to Goloka. The mood of

awe and reverence is so delectable in Vaikuntha that it is very hard to move to

the mood of the Goloka devotees without coming here first.

I never saw evidence anywhere that the Hare Krishna Mantra chanting stops at

Vaikuntha. Gayatri, yes, but Hare Krishna, no.

 

If people want to practice raganuga bhakti, they should also live on a handful

of earth a day like Gaura Kishor das Babaji, who showed the actual standard of

someone qualified to practice raganuga bhakti.

 

Otherwise their raganuga bhakti is simply a DIY sadhana bhakti with chunks left

out! That's why it is called "cheap" ("sahajya" in sanscrit). It's a course for

a certain type of horse.

[Guest guest]

>

>If people want to practice raganuga bhakti, they should also live on a

>handful

>of earth a day like Gaura Kishor das Babaji, who showed the actual standard

>of

>someone qualified to practice raganuga bhakti.

>

>Otherwise their raganuga bhakti is simply a DIY sadhana bhakti with chunks

>left

>out! That's why it is called "cheap" ("sahajya" in sanscrit).

 

I didn't know that that's what sahajya meant in sanskrit.Very interesting.

But yes I've seen plenty of devotees exhibiting this cheap sentimeent.

In kirtan you'll see some brahmacri all teary-eyed,you'd swear he's going

to faint in ecstacy.

Then when you ask him to do some little service like cleaning the temple

room he refuses.So absorbed,so advanced that he can't even surrender to the

temple commander!

In Vrindavan you see sometimes Indains doing this abnowxious display of

feigned ecstacy.

I've even seen one Nepali gurkula boy with tears in his eyes during kirtana

but one of the teachers later told me that he was one of the biggest cases.

 

That's why we have to be very careful when people start talking of rasa and

raganuga bhakti.This is not for the general populace and certainly is NOT

supposed to be preached.It certainly ISN'T what Prabhupada taught us.And as

Jayadvaita Swami has so wisely said "if you haven't heard it before or it's

not in Prbahupada's books then be cvery wary"

 

Even Lord Caitanya would not discuss these advanced topics - only with his

more intimate followers.

 

Bhaktissidhanta Sarasvati was even a gopi but he didn't get into this kind

of thing.Even in Radha Kund he preached from the Ishopanishad.

This is MOST significant.In one of the most exalted places associated with

the loving passtimes of the lord you might expect him to touch on this but

he never did.

Instead he upset the local babjis who didn't like his Ishopanishad

lectures.He called them shajiyas.

Also it was in Radha kund that he told our Shrila Prabhuhpada about book

distribution.He was upset with recent squabbling in the Gaudiya Math and he

told him "If you ever get money print books".

 

The reason I write all this is because even now there are attempts by

various GM persons to infiltrate our society and introduce things that are

definitely NOT what Shrila prbahupada has taught us.

Some of these persons even say that preaching is only for neophytes There

are some GM people saying this regularly and we have to be on our guard

against it.They go on regular tours of our ISKCON centres where they are

allowed to and particularly to the more vulnerable congregational members

subtly and not too subtly telling devotees that Prbahupada didn't give

everything and that there is something higher,namely raganuga bhakti.Along

with this they say that the various activities,things which Prabhupada

pushed so much and which he considered his greatest triumph are just for

neophytes.Things like book distribution,ratha yatras,big temples and farm

communities.These are all for neophytes!

There is even one Gaudiya math leader who criticises Prabhupada's choice of

name for one set of deities,questioning his(Prabhupada's)proper

philosophical understanding on this matter.

And some devotees think this person should be the next big shiksha guru of

ISKCON.

 

All we have to do is stick faithfully to Shrila Prabhupada.We don't need

something new.We already have all we need from our founder

acarya.Prabhupada never appreciated when devotees went outside to other

maths.One devotee who eventually left said that the lectures in ISKCON were

too boring.Prabhupada replied that then HE should give more lively

ones.instead the devotee decided to leave and took shelter from one of

Prabhupada's godbrothers,agreat insult to his divine grace.

 

Basically what I'm saying is we are safe with Shrila Prbahupada and the

devotees who strictly follow him.To venture outside to new and "more

interesting" topics - ANYTHING that we don't find in Shrila Prabhupada's

teachings - is a big risk.

 

Your servant and cousin,

 

Nitaicandra das.

 

 

____

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/23/99 5:56:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Antardwip.JPS (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes:

 

<<

"Golokera prema donna, hari-nama-sankirtana" - all who take part in "Hari

Nama"

get that love of Krishna from Goloka Vrindavana.

It is also stated in Jaiva Dharma, I think, or if not there, another

authoritative source, that denizens of Vaikuntha willingly take birth during

this time to get Lord Chaitanya's mercy to elevate them to Goloka. The mood

of

awe and reverence is so delectable in Vaikuntha that it is very hard to move

to

the mood of the Goloka devotees without coming here first.

I never saw evidence anywhere that the Hare Krishna Mantra chanting stops at

Vaikuntha. Gayatri, yes, but Hare Krishna, no.

>>

 

I would disagree. In the end of Canto 2, mukti is defined as the revelation

of one's svarupa or pre-existing spiritual form. It is not, and cannot be,

the creation of a new form. All statements of the acharyas about changing

rasas/bodies must be seen in a way secondary to this fundamental truth. So

one can only get a body/rasa, that he has eternally had all along. Those

Vaikuntha souls who come here, chant Hare Krishna, and go there, must already

have a form there of which they are unaware of.

 

This sequence of motion is merely a way to glorify the superiority of Goloka

over Vaikuntha. But it cannot literally mean that the soul substantially left

one planet for another thus causing populations of Vaikuntha and Goloka to

be respectively decreased and increased by one. It only means there was

already a preexisting form in Goloka with an expansion in Vaikuntha, both of

which will continue to exist eternally. This would be consistent with Srimad

Bhagavatam, Vedanta etc.

 

Another way to look at it is that a soul and its siddha deha are one. In the

Bhagavad-gita, Krishna has already explained that the soul is eternal.

Therefore all the spiritual bodies are eternal. Just as we are unaware of all

or any of our siddha dehas, similarly our Vaikuntha siddha deha may not be

aware of the Goloka siddha deha. Our position in Goloka may be realized by

us, but it is not something that is newly achieved at any time.

 

Regarding the potency of Hare Krishna mahamantra, it cannot promote a soul to

Goloka if he is intrinsically only from Vaikuntha (assuming he does not have

any forms in Goloka). To think that it can would also be a violation of the

Srimad Bhagavatam's explanation of mukti and reality. And to glorify Lord

Krishna in a way that contradicts the Gita/Bhagavatam/Vedanta may be called a

social disturbance, sahajiyaism, or worse.

Any thoughts?

 

ys

Gerald Surya

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/23/99 5:56:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Antardwip.JPS (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes:

 

<< "Golokera prema donna, hari-nama-sankirtana" - all who take part in "Hari

Nama"

get that love of Krishna from Goloka Vrindavana.

 

I never saw evidence anywhere that the Hare Krishna Mantra chanting stops at

Vaikuntha. Gayatri, yes, but Hare Krishna, no. >>

 

I was just listening to the Issues in ISKCON Reform on Chakra. Lecture 1b

At the very end, in the question answers period, Ravindra svarupa Prabhu says

that the idea that your rasa is given to you at a certain time is a notion of

some sahajiyas. According to Srila Prabhupada, however, it was already there

in the heart.

Therefore, it cannot be that the Hare Krishna mantra gives one a new

svarupa/position in the spiritual world

 

GS.