We have come from Radha Krsna lila!

[Guest guest]

[Text 84120 from SOCHI]

 

> I was just reading "songs of the Vaisnava Acaryas", fourth printing

> (1996). Therein Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in his "Bhuliya Tomare",

> "Forgetting You":

>

> "O Lord, forgetting you and coming to this material world, I have

> experienced a host of sins and sorrows. Now I approach your lotus feet and

> submit my tale of woe."

>

> Of course, he's playing the part of an ordinary conditioned soul.

>

> Someone has forgotten Krishna.

>

> But who are the conditioned souls, originally? Jivera svarupa haya krsnera

> nitya-dasa. Were they not pure devotees before the beginning of their

> conditioning?

 

> Is there such a category as "constitutionally impure souls"?

 

> If the souls were not originally pure, what were they, and if not coming

> from Krishna's pastimes, where did they come from?

 

All these questions are dealt with very nicely in the recently published (by

ISKCON devotees) book by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati "Brahmana and

Vaisnava". Please read carefully the elaborate explanation of the jiva's

fall down, especially the second paragraph, and judge for yourself.

 

In the second chapter entitled Harijana kanda, page 86, Srila

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura states:

 

"Who are the Harijanas, or Vaisnavas, and what makes them different from the

nondevotees? I am quoting various evidence from the scriptures and

sentiments of devotees in this Hari-jana-khanda to answer these questions.

 

"Before acquiring material designations, the living entity is supremely

pure. EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT ENGAGED IN SERVING THE SUPREME LORD [emphasis

mine], he remains situated in the neutral position of santa-rasa due to his

marginal nature. Though the living entity born from the marginal potency

does not at that time exhibit a taste for serving the Lord due to a lack of

knowledge of self realization, his direct propensity of serving the Supreme

Lord nevertheless remains within him in a dormant state. Though the indirect

propensity of material enjoyment, which is contrary to the service of the

Lord, is not found in him at that time, indifference to the service of Hari

and the seed of material enjoyment, which follows that state of

indifference, are nevertheless present within him.

 

"The living entity, who belongs to the marginal potency, cannot remain

indifferent forever by subduing both devotional and nondevotional

propensities. He therefore contemplates unconstitutional activities from his

marginal position. As a sleeping person dreams that he is active in the

physical world without actually being involved in activities, when the

dormant indifferent living entity of the marginal potency exhibits even a

little apathy to the service of the Supreme Lord and situates himself in a

neutral, unchanging condition for even a little time, he is infected by

impersonalism. That is why the conditioned soul desires to merge in the

impersonal Brahman, thus exhibiting his mind's fickle nature. But due to

neglecting the eternal service of the Lord and thereby developing the

quality of aversion to the Lord, he cannot remain fixed in that position. In

this way aversion to the Lord breaks his concentration of mind and

establishes him as the master of this world of enjoyment.

 

"Maya, the external energy of the Supreme Lord, then induces the marginal

living entity to enjoy this world through her covering and throwing

potencies and thus shows the living entity the reality of being averse to

the Lord's service.

 

"At that time the living entity considers himself the king of enjoyers, and

being situated in the mode passion he takes the position of Brahma and

creates progeny. The living entities who are born from Brahma, the

grandfather of everyone, expand themselves in families of Aryans and

brahmanas. In this world of duality, however, living entities who are

covered and thrown under the control of the external energy naturally become

envious . This enviousness further creates pride, illusion, greed, anger,

and lust and induces the living entities to dance frantically in aversion to

the Lord. At that time they forget both that they were born from Grandfather

Brahma and the Lord 's instructions in the Vedas.

 

"And on the platform of progress, if a living entity cultivates

transcendental sound vibration and revives the process of remembering the

lotus feet of Sri Krsna, he then achieves scientific spiritual knowledge. By

this process, all anarthas are destroyed and he becomes situated in a

supremely auspicious position.

 

"The mood that arises when one is manipulating his senses is called vilasa,

or enjoyment. The meaning of vairagya, or renunciation, is to become averse

to the accumulation of sensual knowledge. The conditioned souls who are

overwhelmed by the illusory energy of Hari become temporary enjoyers of this

world under the control of Maya 's covering and throwing potencies. But if

such persons fortunately meet devotees who are constantly remembering Krsna,

then they can give up insignificant material enjoyment and receive the

opportunity to attain transcendental knowledge.

 

"Although due to forgetfulness of Krsna the perverted movement of the senses

is considered temporary and adverse, when they are properly employed in

eternal subjects their disease of transience is destroyed and they give up

the desire to embrace such transient objects. Then that person appreciates

the following verse from the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, which is the mercy of Sri

Sanatana and compiled by Srila Gopala Bhatta, the disciple of Tridandipada

Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati, who was a servant of Sri Gauranga and born in

an Andhra brahmana family.

 

grhita-visnu diksako

visnu-puja-paro narah

vaisnavo 'bhihito 'bhijnair

itaro 'smad avaisnavah

 

One who is initiated into Sri Visnu's mantras and who is devoted to

worshipping Lord Visnu is called a Vaisnava by those who are learned. One

who is devoid of these practices in not a Vaisnava."

 

"Although the eternal living entity is constitutionally favorable inclined

towards the Supreme Lord, due to his indifference towards the eternal

service of the Lord he is eligible for being controlled by maya. When one

tries to measure material objects with his sensual knowledge, he simply

increases his enjoying propensity day after day. That he is eligible for

achieving transcendental knowledge - this ancient memory he also often

forgets. As a result of being covered and thrown and considering himself the

enjoyer of this world, such a person has no power to discriminate between

good and bad, rather he considers temporary and unreal subjects as permanent

and favorable for his enjoyment."

 

Prabhu, would you argue with this one? Seems like there is no way around.

No?

 

Yes, the jiva is the eternal servant of Krsna because he "is

constitutionally favorable inclined towards the Supreme Lord", but before

falling down he serves Him only in santa-rasa which in fact is not direct

pure devotional service. As for the higher rasas, Srila Prabhupada says that

the pure devotee can never forget Krsna, and you cannot argue with that.

 

> Btw: all of you, participating in the discussion, have you read "Our

> Original Position"? Might be useful, since that's what this discussion is

> all about.

 

Yes, I have, prabhu. I have even translated this book into Russian three

years ago at the request of my former guru. But now I can say that in fact

the book does not establish anything but rather creates more confusion.

 

ys