Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 > > Everybody has his own problems, but why is it necessarily a problem to > > discuss the philosophy? > > It is the context in which it is discussed. It's like putting the cart > in front of the ox. It's like discussing the socialogical roots of > poverty while someone is staving to death in front of you. It's like > jnani yoga instead of bhakti yoga. Prabhu, if you say that discussing topics related directly to Krishna is jnana yoga then please share with me what is your conception of bhakti yoga. And also what is your realization of the difference between aropa-siddhi bhakti and svarupa-siddhi bhakti. I have seen so many devotees dying spiritually out of "spiritual starvation", without taste to hari-katha and hari-nama, because they do not have real sadhu-sanga and were never taught properly to think and speak about Krishna. Thus I find trying to speak of Krishna more practical for me than speaking of cow protection or any other thing in the category of aropa siddhi bhakti. After all, we should see our sadhya or prayojana clearly in order to choose the proper sadhana. And we should determine first what is our ox and what is the cart. If there is any further comment please send it to me in a PRIVATE letter. ys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 > > Everybody has his own problems, but why is it necessarily a problem to > > discuss the philosophy? > > It is the context in which it is discussed. It's like putting the cart > in front of the ox. It's like discussing the socialogical roots of > poverty while someone is staving to death in front of you. It's like > jnani yoga instead of bhakti yoga. Prabhu, if you say that discussing topics related directly to Krishna is jnana yoga then please share with me what is your conception of bhakti yoga. And also what is your realization of the difference between aropa-siddhi bhakti and svarupa-siddhi bhakti. I have seen so many devotees dying spiritually out of "spiritual starvation", without taste to hari-katha and hari-nama, because they do not have real sadhu-sanga and were never taught properly to think and speak about Krishna. Thus I find trying to speak of Krishna more practical for me than speaking of cow protection or any other thing in the category of aropa siddhi bhakti. After all, we should see our sadhya or prayojana clearly in order to choose the proper sadhana. And we should determine first what is our ox and what is the cart. If there is any further comment please send it to me in a PRIVATE letter. ys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 > Thus I find trying to speak of Krishna more practical for me > than speaking of cow protection or any other thing in the category of aropa > siddhi bhakti. How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 > Thus I find trying to speak of Krishna more practical for me > than speaking of cow protection or any other thing in the category of aropa > siddhi bhakti. How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 1999 Report Share Posted September 27, 1999 > Thus I find trying to speak of Krishna more practical for me > than speaking of cow protection or any other thing in the category of aropa > siddhi bhakti. How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we do will bring us directly to Krishna. Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. When we are pure devotees serving Krishna in our siddha-rupa then anything we do, either taking care of cows or even eating and sleeping, is svarupa-siddha-bhakti. But as long as we are conditioned, such activities are in the category of aropa-siddha-bhakti (endeavours indirectly attributed with the quality of devotion). If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes cow here. It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we do will bring us directly to Krishna. Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. When we are pure devotees serving Krishna in our siddha-rupa then anything we do, either taking care of cows or even eating and sleeping, is svarupa-siddha-bhakti. But as long as we are conditioned, such activities are in the category of aropa-siddha-bhakti (endeavours indirectly attributed with the quality of devotion). If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes cow here. It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we do will bring us directly to Krishna. Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. When we are pure devotees serving Krishna in our siddha-rupa then anything we do, either taking care of cows or even eating and sleeping, is svarupa-siddha-bhakti. But as long as we are conditioned, such activities are in the category of aropa-siddha-bhakti (endeavours indirectly attributed with the quality of devotion). If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes cow here. It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather > becomes cow here. > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not > as same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. if vaysa will discharg his duty perfectly he will take birth as brahmana next life. Cow protection is meant to help us in out simply living , high thinking. But where are such places where it can be applied? Certainly not in Poland, where deemoniac politician try to kill polish farmers, etc. Actually with no ksatrya we fail to introduce varnasrama, because even we have brahmanas, but sudras and vaysas will not voluntairly help brahmanas with maintaining, and even it is not their business. It is ksatrya who collect taxes and give charity to brahmanas, and it is ksatrya who engage lower casts in religious activities, otherwise they are to busy in material development. And if we propagate harinam sankirtan, and people start to regularly chant mahamantra, then they will come to us for advice, and they will force politicians to rule according to SP books. But it is future. First we are to be pure hearted by sadhana bhakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather > becomes cow here. > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not > as same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. if vaysa will discharg his duty perfectly he will take birth as brahmana next life. Cow protection is meant to help us in out simply living , high thinking. But where are such places where it can be applied? Certainly not in Poland, where deemoniac politician try to kill polish farmers, etc. Actually with no ksatrya we fail to introduce varnasrama, because even we have brahmanas, but sudras and vaysas will not voluntairly help brahmanas with maintaining, and even it is not their business. It is ksatrya who collect taxes and give charity to brahmanas, and it is ksatrya who engage lower casts in religious activities, otherwise they are to busy in material development. And if we propagate harinam sankirtan, and people start to regularly chant mahamantra, then they will come to us for advice, and they will force politicians to rule according to SP books. But it is future. First we are to be pure hearted by sadhana bhakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather > becomes cow here. > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not > as same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. if vaysa will discharg his duty perfectly he will take birth as brahmana next life. Cow protection is meant to help us in out simply living , high thinking. But where are such places where it can be applied? Certainly not in Poland, where deemoniac politician try to kill polish farmers, etc. Actually with no ksatrya we fail to introduce varnasrama, because even we have brahmanas, but sudras and vaysas will not voluntairly help brahmanas with maintaining, and even it is not their business. It is ksatrya who collect taxes and give charity to brahmanas, and it is ksatrya who engage lower casts in religious activities, otherwise they are to busy in material development. And if we propagate harinam sankirtan, and people start to regularly chant mahamantra, then they will come to us for advice, and they will force politicians to rule according to SP books. But it is future. First we are to be pure hearted by sadhana bhakti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we > do will bring us directly to Krishna. Yes, true. I agree with your general message. > Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. However, respecting and serving the cow is mentioned as one of the 64 angas of uttama-bhakti by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. The tikas include circumambulating, feeding and scratching the neck as ways to serve and respect the cow. (I really think that you've touched on a sacred cow here, prabhu) > When we are pure devotees serving Krishna in our siddha-rupa then anything > we do, either taking care of cows or even eating and sleeping, is > svarupa-siddha-bhakti. But > as long as we are conditioned, such activities are in the category of > aropa-siddha-bhakti (endeavours indirectly attributed with the quality of > devotion). The application of your statement can also be easily misunderstood and misapplied. Surely you will agree that a devotee could be serving a cow in pure devotion ie. he could be thinking of Gopal. > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes > cow here. Surely a Vaisnava wouldn't think of ONLY the cow at the time of death. Right? > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as > same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. Again, I agree with you, but here it seems as though you've relegated it fairly close to useless. Please don't become overly rigid in your new found application of suddha-bhakti. Your servant, Purnacandra Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we > do will bring us directly to Krishna. Yes, true. I agree with your general message. > Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. However, respecting and serving the cow is mentioned as one of the 64 angas of uttama-bhakti by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. The tikas include circumambulating, feeding and scratching the neck as ways to serve and respect the cow. (I really think that you've touched on a sacred cow here, prabhu) > When we are pure devotees serving Krishna in our siddha-rupa then anything > we do, either taking care of cows or even eating and sleeping, is > svarupa-siddha-bhakti. But > as long as we are conditioned, such activities are in the category of > aropa-siddha-bhakti (endeavours indirectly attributed with the quality of > devotion). The application of your statement can also be easily misunderstood and misapplied. Surely you will agree that a devotee could be serving a cow in pure devotion ie. he could be thinking of Gopal. > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes > cow here. Surely a Vaisnava wouldn't think of ONLY the cow at the time of death. Right? > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as > same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. Again, I agree with you, but here it seems as though you've relegated it fairly close to useless. Please don't become overly rigid in your new found application of suddha-bhakti. Your servant, Purnacandra Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we > do will bring us directly to Krishna. Yes, true. I agree with your general message. > Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. However, respecting and serving the cow is mentioned as one of the 64 angas of uttama-bhakti by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. The tikas include circumambulating, feeding and scratching the neck as ways to serve and respect the cow. (I really think that you've touched on a sacred cow here, prabhu) > When we are pure devotees serving Krishna in our siddha-rupa then anything > we do, either taking care of cows or even eating and sleeping, is > svarupa-siddha-bhakti. But > as long as we are conditioned, such activities are in the category of > aropa-siddha-bhakti (endeavours indirectly attributed with the quality of > devotion). The application of your statement can also be easily misunderstood and misapplied. Surely you will agree that a devotee could be serving a cow in pure devotion ie. he could be thinking of Gopal. > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes > cow here. Surely a Vaisnava wouldn't think of ONLY the cow at the time of death. Right? > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as > same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. Again, I agree with you, but here it seems as though you've relegated it fairly close to useless. Please don't become overly rigid in your new found application of suddha-bhakti. Your servant, Purnacandra Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > > > > Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. > > However, respecting and serving the cow is mentioned as one of the 64 angas of > uttama-bhakti by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. The tikas > include circumambulating, feeding and scratching the neck as ways to serve and > respect the cow. (I really think that you've touched on a sacred cow here, > prabhu) ;-) Good point, thank you. _==o_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > > > > Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. > > However, respecting and serving the cow is mentioned as one of the 64 angas of > uttama-bhakti by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. The tikas > include circumambulating, feeding and scratching the neck as ways to serve and > respect the cow. (I really think that you've touched on a sacred cow here, > prabhu) ;-) Good point, thank you. _==o_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 > > > > Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant to develop krsna-prema. > > However, respecting and serving the cow is mentioned as one of the 64 angas of > uttama-bhakti by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu. The tikas > include circumambulating, feeding and scratching the neck as ways to serve and > respect the cow. (I really think that you've touched on a sacred cow here, > prabhu) ;-) Good point, thank you. _==o_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 "COM: Mundita Mastaka (das) (NE-BBT Russian)" wrote: > [Text 2659939 from COM] > > > How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. > > Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we > do will bring > us directly to Krishna. Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant > to develop krsna-prema. Please cite scriptual reference. > > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes > cow here. ? I am curious as to the basis for that statement. Besides an extrapolation from Jada Bharata. > > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as > same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. TRANSLATION Prahlada Maharaja said: Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Visnu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words) -- these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Krsna through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge. PURPORT ....... There are no distinctions permitting only a man or only a brahmana to offer devotional service to the Lord. Everyone can do so. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (9.32), striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te 'pi yanti param gatim: although women, vaisyas and sudras are considered less intelligent, they also can become devotees and return home, back to Godhead. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 So according to Srila Prabhupada, cow protection, which is the business of a vaisya, is not an impediment to devotional service. Although you lumped the other 7 of the nine devotional processes into an etc, let's take a look at some more. Also from the same purport.... (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary to sravanam kirtanam, although one so situated would most likely do so. Still later in the same purport (9) Atma-nivedanam. The word Atma-nivedanam refers to the stage at which one who has no motive other than to serve the Lord surrenders everything to the Lord and performs his activities only to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such a devotee is like a cow that is cared for by its master. When cared for by its master, a cow is not in anxiety over its maintenance. Such a cow is always devoted to its master, and it never acts independently, but only for the master's benefit. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Of course, the reference to a cow here is not germane to our present discussion, merely an interesting thing to note. Although it does put an interesting twist on your statement "If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes cow here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 "COM: Mundita Mastaka (das) (NE-BBT Russian)" wrote: > [Text 2659939 from COM] > > > How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. > > Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we > do will bring > us directly to Krishna. Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant > to develop krsna-prema. Please cite scriptual reference. > > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes > cow here. ? I am curious as to the basis for that statement. Besides an extrapolation from Jada Bharata. > > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as > same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. TRANSLATION Prahlada Maharaja said: Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Visnu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words) -- these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Krsna through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge. PURPORT ....... There are no distinctions permitting only a man or only a brahmana to offer devotional service to the Lord. Everyone can do so. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (9.32), striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te 'pi yanti param gatim: although women, vaisyas and sudras are considered less intelligent, they also can become devotees and return home, back to Godhead. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 So according to Srila Prabhupada, cow protection, which is the business of a vaisya, is not an impediment to devotional service. Although you lumped the other 7 of the nine devotional processes into an etc, let's take a look at some more. Also from the same purport.... (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary to sravanam kirtanam, although one so situated would most likely do so. Still later in the same purport (9) Atma-nivedanam. The word Atma-nivedanam refers to the stage at which one who has no motive other than to serve the Lord surrenders everything to the Lord and performs his activities only to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such a devotee is like a cow that is cared for by its master. When cared for by its master, a cow is not in anxiety over its maintenance. Such a cow is always devoted to its master, and it never acts independently, but only for the master's benefit. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Of course, the reference to a cow here is not germane to our present discussion, merely an interesting thing to note. Although it does put an interesting twist on your statement "If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes cow here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 "COM: Mundita Mastaka (das) (NE-BBT Russian)" wrote: > [Text 2659939 from COM] > > > How is cow protection not related to Krishna? He was a cowherd boy. > > Everything is related to Krishna in one way or another but not everything we > do will bring > us directly to Krishna. Cow protection is not part of sadhana which is meant > to develop krsna-prema. Please cite scriptual reference. > > If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes > cow here. ? I am curious as to the basis for that statement. Besides an extrapolation from Jada Bharata. > > It doesn't mean, of course, that cow protection is useless, but it's not as > same bhakti as sravanam, kirtanam, etc. TRANSLATION Prahlada Maharaja said: Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Visnu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words) -- these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Krsna through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge. PURPORT ....... There are no distinctions permitting only a man or only a brahmana to offer devotional service to the Lord. Everyone can do so. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (9.32), striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te 'pi yanti param gatim: although women, vaisyas and sudras are considered less intelligent, they also can become devotees and return home, back to Godhead. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 So according to Srila Prabhupada, cow protection, which is the business of a vaisya, is not an impediment to devotional service. Although you lumped the other 7 of the nine devotional processes into an etc, let's take a look at some more. Also from the same purport.... (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary to sravanam kirtanam, although one so situated would most likely do so. Still later in the same purport (9) Atma-nivedanam. The word Atma-nivedanam refers to the stage at which one who has no motive other than to serve the Lord surrenders everything to the Lord and performs his activities only to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such a devotee is like a cow that is cared for by its master. When cared for by its master, a cow is not in anxiety over its maintenance. Such a cow is always devoted to its master, and it never acts independently, but only for the master's benefit. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Of course, the reference to a cow here is not germane to our present discussion, merely an interesting thing to note. Although it does put an interesting twist on your statement "If one dies thinking of cows he doesn't go to Krishnaloka but rather becomes cow here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 > Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as > "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't > be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. > And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary > to sravanam kirtanam, That's amazing! I have no folio. could you write exact SP words, that by doing cow protection there is no need for sravana, kirtana??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 > Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as > "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't > be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. > And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary > to sravanam kirtanam, That's amazing! I have no folio. could you write exact SP words, that by doing cow protection there is no need for sravana, kirtana??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 "COM: Dvarakadhisa (das) IDS (PL)" wrote: > [Text 2662726 from COM] > > > Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as > > "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't > > be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. > > And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary > > to sravanam kirtanam, > > That's amazing! I have no folio. could you write exact SP words, that by > doing cow protection there is no need for sravana, kirtana??? Why would I want to? That is not a point that I have tried to make. I was simply responding to a point made that said cow protection wasn't important for pure devotional service. I was merely trying to point out the possibility that one one could do cow protection and still become a pure devotee. As for providing the reference, I thought I already had. Apparently my full text didn't arrive at your inbox. Let me repost it. (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Or perhaps I assumed too much in my posting. Let me spell it out in greater detail. There are 9 processes of devotional service. Sravanam kirtanam are two of them. Dasyam is another one. So Srila Prabhupada says about dasyam "If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success,..." Obviously, he isn't saying anyone shouldn't sravanam kirtanam, just that the possibility exists that even without doing so, it is still possibile to attain success. So the point I was making was that it is easy to see that cow protection could be assisting Krsna, since Krsna is a cowherd boy. The original point made was that without sravanam kirtanam falldown is inevitable. My point is sravanam kirtanam are 2 of 9 processes. Although we can find may statements glorifying sravanam kirtanam as easy and wonderful processes, and you will find no disagreement from me, I think we have to see the broader picture and try to be inclusionery and not exclusionery about things. I am simply pointing out the possibility that even if you saw cow protection as exclusionery from sravanam kirtanam, which was never a point I made, still the possibility exists that pure devotion can be attained. (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 So even though the quote doesn't specifically mention cow protection, I think it would be a real stretch to say that doing cow protection isn't assisting the Lord. It also doesn't specifically mention book distribution, yet many have performed that service and felt that it was to assist Krsna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 "COM: Dvarakadhisa (das) IDS (PL)" wrote: > [Text 2662726 from COM] > > > Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as > > "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't > > be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. > > And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary > > to sravanam kirtanam, > > That's amazing! I have no folio. could you write exact SP words, that by > doing cow protection there is no need for sravana, kirtana??? Why would I want to? That is not a point that I have tried to make. I was simply responding to a point made that said cow protection wasn't important for pure devotional service. I was merely trying to point out the possibility that one one could do cow protection and still become a pure devotee. As for providing the reference, I thought I already had. Apparently my full text didn't arrive at your inbox. Let me repost it. (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Or perhaps I assumed too much in my posting. Let me spell it out in greater detail. There are 9 processes of devotional service. Sravanam kirtanam are two of them. Dasyam is another one. So Srila Prabhupada says about dasyam "If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success,..." Obviously, he isn't saying anyone shouldn't sravanam kirtanam, just that the possibility exists that even without doing so, it is still possibile to attain success. So the point I was making was that it is easy to see that cow protection could be assisting Krsna, since Krsna is a cowherd boy. The original point made was that without sravanam kirtanam falldown is inevitable. My point is sravanam kirtanam are 2 of 9 processes. Although we can find may statements glorifying sravanam kirtanam as easy and wonderful processes, and you will find no disagreement from me, I think we have to see the broader picture and try to be inclusionery and not exclusionery about things. I am simply pointing out the possibility that even if you saw cow protection as exclusionery from sravanam kirtanam, which was never a point I made, still the possibility exists that pure devotion can be attained. (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 So even though the quote doesn't specifically mention cow protection, I think it would be a real stretch to say that doing cow protection isn't assisting the Lord. It also doesn't specifically mention book distribution, yet many have performed that service and felt that it was to assist Krsna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 "COM: Dvarakadhisa (das) IDS (PL)" wrote: > [Text 2662726 from COM] > > > Since Krsna is a cowherd boy, doing cow protection is easy to see as > > "..assisting the Lord as a servant" Not to say that other services can't > > be assisting Krsna also, just that on the surface it is the most obvious. > > And by doing so, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is not even necessary > > to sravanam kirtanam, > > That's amazing! I have no folio. could you write exact SP words, that by > doing cow protection there is no need for sravana, kirtana??? Why would I want to? That is not a point that I have tried to make. I was simply responding to a point made that said cow protection wasn't important for pure devotional service. I was merely trying to point out the possibility that one one could do cow protection and still become a pure devotee. As for providing the reference, I thought I already had. Apparently my full text didn't arrive at your inbox. Let me repost it. (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 Or perhaps I assumed too much in my posting. Let me spell it out in greater detail. There are 9 processes of devotional service. Sravanam kirtanam are two of them. Dasyam is another one. So Srila Prabhupada says about dasyam "If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success,..." Obviously, he isn't saying anyone shouldn't sravanam kirtanam, just that the possibility exists that even without doing so, it is still possibile to attain success. So the point I was making was that it is easy to see that cow protection could be assisting Krsna, since Krsna is a cowherd boy. The original point made was that without sravanam kirtanam falldown is inevitable. My point is sravanam kirtanam are 2 of 9 processes. Although we can find may statements glorifying sravanam kirtanam as easy and wonderful processes, and you will find no disagreement from me, I think we have to see the broader picture and try to be inclusionery and not exclusionery about things. I am simply pointing out the possibility that even if you saw cow protection as exclusionery from sravanam kirtanam, which was never a point I made, still the possibility exists that pure devotion can be attained. (7) Dasyam. There is the following statement in regard to assisting the Lord as a servant. After many, many thousands of births, when one comes to understand that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, one can deliver others from this universe. If one simply continues to think that he is an eternal servant of Krsna, even without performing any other process of devotional service, he can attain full success, for simply by this feeling one can perform all nine processes of devotional service. >>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 7.5.23, SB 7.5.24, SB 7.5.23-24 So even though the quote doesn't specifically mention cow protection, I think it would be a real stretch to say that doing cow protection isn't assisting the Lord. It also doesn't specifically mention book distribution, yet many have performed that service and felt that it was to assist Krsna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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