To set the record straight -- one more thing

[Guest guest]

I wrote:

 

>... Narajan Maharaja, who during the Prabhupada festival

>was giving darshans at a hotel not too far from the LA temple...

 

Come to think about it, it was more than just darshans.

 

The night I went to the hotel -- repeatedly invited by a couple of friends,

"maybe this is the only opportunity in your life to have darshan with a

Vaisnava sadhu on the same level as Srila Prabhupada" they told me -- there

was no regular darshan. First, Narayan Maharaja asked the disciples of

Prabhupada present in the room to come forward, just as they had done at

the ISKCON temple a few hours earlier, and tell of their memories of

Swamiji (Prabhupada). This they did, while breaking down and sobbing in

some cases.

Then came the second part of the night's program: new names. Narayan

Maharaja said he had given initiations that morning and was now to give the

new initiates their new names. As it turned out, the vast majority of the

new initiates had already gotten spiritual names once before -- from

current ISKCON gurus, I suppose. So out of a dozen or so new initiates,

Narayan Maharaja gave new names to most. To a couple of initiates, however,

Narayan Maharaja said, that's a nice name, you can keep it [their previous

spiritual names].

 

Back home that night I remembered what one devotee, a disciple of

Prabhupada, had said during the Prabhupada festival at the temple:

Narayan Maharaja's is a new religious movement. His followers are, these

days, going through the same fanatical stage we went through during our

early ISKCON days.

 

I think that's all I have to say about this topic.

 

your servant,

Kunti dd

[Guest guest]

I wrote:

 

>... Narajan Maharaja, who during the Prabhupada festival

>was giving darshans at a hotel not too far from the LA temple...

 

Come to think about it, it was more than just darshans.

 

The night I went to the hotel -- repeatedly invited by a couple of friends,

"maybe this is the only opportunity in your life to have darshan with a

Vaisnava sadhu on the same level as Srila Prabhupada" they told me -- there

was no regular darshan. First, Narayan Maharaja asked the disciples of

Prabhupada present in the room to come forward, just as they had done at

the ISKCON temple a few hours earlier, and tell of their memories of

Swamiji (Prabhupada). This they did, while breaking down and sobbing in

some cases.

Then came the second part of the night's program: new names. Narayan

Maharaja said he had given initiations that morning and was now to give the

new initiates their new names. As it turned out, the vast majority of the

new initiates had already gotten spiritual names once before -- from

current ISKCON gurus, I suppose. So out of a dozen or so new initiates,

Narayan Maharaja gave new names to most. To a couple of initiates, however,

Narayan Maharaja said, that's a nice name, you can keep it [their previous

spiritual names].

 

Back home that night I remembered what one devotee, a disciple of

Prabhupada, had said during the Prabhupada festival at the temple:

Narayan Maharaja's is a new religious movement. His followers are, these

days, going through the same fanatical stage we went through during our

early ISKCON days.

 

I think that's all I have to say about this topic.

 

your servant,

Kunti dd

[Guest guest]

I wrote:

 

>... Narajan Maharaja, who during the Prabhupada festival

>was giving darshans at a hotel not too far from the LA temple...

 

Come to think about it, it was more than just darshans.

 

The night I went to the hotel -- repeatedly invited by a couple of friends,

"maybe this is the only opportunity in your life to have darshan with a

Vaisnava sadhu on the same level as Srila Prabhupada" they told me -- there

was no regular darshan. First, Narayan Maharaja asked the disciples of

Prabhupada present in the room to come forward, just as they had done at

the ISKCON temple a few hours earlier, and tell of their memories of

Swamiji (Prabhupada). This they did, while breaking down and sobbing in

some cases.

Then came the second part of the night's program: new names. Narayan

Maharaja said he had given initiations that morning and was now to give the

new initiates their new names. As it turned out, the vast majority of the

new initiates had already gotten spiritual names once before -- from

current ISKCON gurus, I suppose. So out of a dozen or so new initiates,

Narayan Maharaja gave new names to most. To a couple of initiates, however,

Narayan Maharaja said, that's a nice name, you can keep it [their previous

spiritual names].

 

Back home that night I remembered what one devotee, a disciple of

Prabhupada, had said during the Prabhupada festival at the temple:

Narayan Maharaja's is a new religious movement. His followers are, these

days, going through the same fanatical stage we went through during our

early ISKCON days.

 

I think that's all I have to say about this topic.

 

your servant,

Kunti dd

[Guest guest]

>I suppose.

 

It is not good to write such words in such strong letter, you did not ask

new initiates if they have good standing guru?

I wrote some time before that Narayan Maharaj came to New Mayapur in '97 and

reinitiated devotees. I was not there and i asked my freind for details. So,

Narayan Maharaj reinitiated disciple of Parama Gati Maharaj whose name was

RamaGovinda das. He was temple commadnor that time, and some

misunderstandings betwen him and PGM arrised. So he just rejected his guru

and accepted NM. I wonder that NM accept such devotees who are cancala.

 

So there is quite big number of devotees who find no place for himself in

ISKCON right now, or previously. There are dozens of devotees who are

mentally distuirbed because they had very bad relationship with their

parents, especcially with father. They just look for affection. If they

don't find it in ISKCON they do not care for rules and go to another place,

because mental impulse is too strong to tolerate it and deal with

intellligent.

>From very begginning we were asked to fully surrender to Krsna, but most

often we are not conscious what we actually engage in.

Problem arrise when we try to strongly push this movement with emotionally

disturbed people. Srila Prabhupada did it, so we follow, but are we ready to

digest all problems which arrise, which are not necessarly spiritual? Most

people need good psychologist and good father rather than spiritual master.

So, there will be always children who do not feel comfortable at home and

they want to leave, and there will be always persons who will propose them

warmness and paternal feelings, out of their love or lust.

I try to come closer to understanding whether Narayan Maharaj just try to

collect followers or simply offer his affection to those deadly needed it.

I understand Hrdayanda Maharajas comment about disturbing house order, but

let us look from another angle of vision. There has been one polish devotee

lately, who really could not find his place in ISKCON. Besides, he had

horrible relationship with parents and was really emotionally disturbed,

being very harsh but very intelligent. Typical gyani. And just recently he

has been initiated by NM and is very happy engage in service in LOndon. (He

was Harikesh disc before). So what is a problem. If ISKCON could not satisfy

his needs and he can be happy with another group, why should we stop such

people if they are really fired up, and as i know from other reports, NM

disciples are really enthusiasticly engage in kirtan.

Of course we may argue that if someone is going to danger than we should try

to stop him by any means. But i still look for any solid proof that NM is

not-bonafide.

 

your servant

Dvarkadhis das

[Guest guest]

>I suppose.

 

It is not good to write such words in such strong letter, you did not ask

new initiates if they have good standing guru?

I wrote some time before that Narayan Maharaj came to New Mayapur in '97 and

reinitiated devotees. I was not there and i asked my freind for details. So,

Narayan Maharaj reinitiated disciple of Parama Gati Maharaj whose name was

RamaGovinda das. He was temple commadnor that time, and some

misunderstandings betwen him and PGM arrised. So he just rejected his guru

and accepted NM. I wonder that NM accept such devotees who are cancala.

 

So there is quite big number of devotees who find no place for himself in

ISKCON right now, or previously. There are dozens of devotees who are

mentally distuirbed because they had very bad relationship with their

parents, especcially with father. They just look for affection. If they

don't find it in ISKCON they do not care for rules and go to another place,

because mental impulse is too strong to tolerate it and deal with

intellligent.

>From very begginning we were asked to fully surrender to Krsna, but most

often we are not conscious what we actually engage in.

Problem arrise when we try to strongly push this movement with emotionally

disturbed people. Srila Prabhupada did it, so we follow, but are we ready to

digest all problems which arrise, which are not necessarly spiritual? Most

people need good psychologist and good father rather than spiritual master.

So, there will be always children who do not feel comfortable at home and

they want to leave, and there will be always persons who will propose them

warmness and paternal feelings, out of their love or lust.

I try to come closer to understanding whether Narayan Maharaj just try to

collect followers or simply offer his affection to those deadly needed it.

I understand Hrdayanda Maharajas comment about disturbing house order, but

let us look from another angle of vision. There has been one polish devotee

lately, who really could not find his place in ISKCON. Besides, he had

horrible relationship with parents and was really emotionally disturbed,

being very harsh but very intelligent. Typical gyani. And just recently he

has been initiated by NM and is very happy engage in service in LOndon. (He

was Harikesh disc before). So what is a problem. If ISKCON could not satisfy

his needs and he can be happy with another group, why should we stop such

people if they are really fired up, and as i know from other reports, NM

disciples are really enthusiasticly engage in kirtan.

Of course we may argue that if someone is going to danger than we should try

to stop him by any means. But i still look for any solid proof that NM is

not-bonafide.

 

your servant

Dvarkadhis das

[Guest guest]

>Most

>people need good psychologist and good father rather than spiritual master.

 

You are most likely right. Personally, I'm sure that's a fact in many cases.

The obvious question, then, is:

Why, while being *emotionally* and *intellectually* and perhaps even

*physically disturbed*, rush to take (spiritual) initiation from yet

another guru? -- this time a guru who lives in India, whom the European or

American reinitiate will hardly get to see again, who knows next to nothing

about the reinitiate's personal and cultural background.

Furthermore, if to associate with Narayan Maharaja's followers is

therapeutic for some devotees, is it a mandatory prerequisite that they

have to kick away their guru and be given a different spiritual name?

You just said that they only need a "good psychologist and good father"...

didn't you?

 

>So, there will be always children who do not feel comfortable at home and

>they want to leave, and there will be always persons who will propose them

>warmness and paternal feelings, out of their love or lust.

 

.... "out of their love or lust"...

 

Yes, you seem to be describing a not uncommon situation in this world.

 

One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem to

find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

 

Incidentally, does history ring a bell in anyone's ears?

 

>This topic brings to mind, as well, the Muslims' practice of sprinkling

>Hindus

>with water, to convert them, during their conquering raids in Early Medieval

>India.... facilitated communalism and the eventual partition of India

>(during which process more people got killed than during Hitler's tyranny).

>

>How did the Muslims get into India in a conquering, dig-vijaya, mood?

>Mesmerized by the wealth of Early Medieval India, its world-wide prestige,

>its spiritual power, its gorgeous temples, its unforgettable food...

>

>Why was India, a former world potency, so weak and conquerable in the Early

>Medieval times? For one thing, it was plagued with petty kings, feudal

>lords (sort of a political Zonal Acharyanism).

>

 

your servant,

Kunti dd

[Guest guest]

>Most

>people need good psychologist and good father rather than spiritual master.

 

You are most likely right. Personally, I'm sure that's a fact in many cases.

The obvious question, then, is:

Why, while being *emotionally* and *intellectually* and perhaps even

*physically disturbed*, rush to take (spiritual) initiation from yet

another guru? -- this time a guru who lives in India, whom the European or

American reinitiate will hardly get to see again, who knows next to nothing

about the reinitiate's personal and cultural background.

Furthermore, if to associate with Narayan Maharaja's followers is

therapeutic for some devotees, is it a mandatory prerequisite that they

have to kick away their guru and be given a different spiritual name?

You just said that they only need a "good psychologist and good father"...

didn't you?

 

>So, there will be always children who do not feel comfortable at home and

>they want to leave, and there will be always persons who will propose them

>warmness and paternal feelings, out of their love or lust.

 

.... "out of their love or lust"...

 

Yes, you seem to be describing a not uncommon situation in this world.

 

One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem to

find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

 

Incidentally, does history ring a bell in anyone's ears?

 

>This topic brings to mind, as well, the Muslims' practice of sprinkling

>Hindus

>with water, to convert them, during their conquering raids in Early Medieval

>India.... facilitated communalism and the eventual partition of India

>(during which process more people got killed than during Hitler's tyranny).

>

>How did the Muslims get into India in a conquering, dig-vijaya, mood?

>Mesmerized by the wealth of Early Medieval India, its world-wide prestige,

>its spiritual power, its gorgeous temples, its unforgettable food...

>

>Why was India, a former world potency, so weak and conquerable in the Early

>Medieval times? For one thing, it was plagued with petty kings, feudal

>lords (sort of a political Zonal Acharyanism).

>

 

your servant,

Kunti dd

[Guest guest]

> One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem to

> find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

> i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

> non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

 

Please stop making on public such unfounded offensive statements against a

bona-fide vaisnava. Comparing NM to the infamous ISKCON Zonal Acarya system

is ludicrous.

It's a shame that junior devotees are allowed to make such propaganda

against senior vaisnavas. It makes ISKCON look very weird in the eyes of the

whole world.

 

"It is general etiquette that superiors are not to be offered even a verbal

fight. Even if they are sometimes harsh in behavior, they should not be

harshly treated." (BG 2.4 purp.)

[Guest guest]

> One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem to

> find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

> i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

> non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

 

Please stop making on public such unfounded offensive statements against a

bona-fide vaisnava. Comparing NM to the infamous ISKCON Zonal Acarya system

is ludicrous.

It's a shame that junior devotees are allowed to make such propaganda

against senior vaisnavas. It makes ISKCON look very weird in the eyes of the

whole world.

 

"It is general etiquette that superiors are not to be offered even a verbal

fight. Even if they are sometimes harsh in behavior, they should not be

harshly treated." (BG 2.4 purp.)

[Guest guest]

> > One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem

> > to find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

> > i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

> > non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

>

> Please stop making on public such unfounded offensive statements against a

> bona-fide vaisnava. Comparing NM to the infamous ISKCON Zonal Acarya

> system is ludicrous.

> It's a shame that junior devotees are allowed to make such propaganda

> against senior vaisnavas. It makes ISKCON look very weird in the eyes of

> the whole world.

>

> "It is general etiquette that superiors are not to be offered even a

> verbal fight. Even if they are sometimes harsh in behavior, they should

> not be harshly treated." (BG 2.4 purp.)

 

It is also a general etiquette not to criticize a spiritual master in

front of the disciples. Since this atiquette was not fallowed by the

superior, it is not strange that the inferiors feel hurt and want to protect

their faith in their spiritual masters. The best would be that superiors

show proper example in the first place, than the inferiors would naturally

follow their good example. This discussion was started by the superior who

in order to glorify the superior vaisnava has somehow managed to use a

technic of belitling other vaisnavas. After all, this IS an ISKCON

conference and atleast we should have enough sence to respect that the

disciples of ISKCON gurus are present here. There was no question of any

propaganda. Some were even asking Srila prabhu not to put us in this kind of

situation, but he continued to cut with his sadhus-knife and I think that he

could also take a part of responsibility that discussion has ended up in

this way.

[Guest guest]

> > One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem

> > to find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

> > i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

> > non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

>

> Please stop making on public such unfounded offensive statements against a

> bona-fide vaisnava. Comparing NM to the infamous ISKCON Zonal Acarya

> system is ludicrous.

> It's a shame that junior devotees are allowed to make such propaganda

> against senior vaisnavas. It makes ISKCON look very weird in the eyes of

> the whole world.

>

> "It is general etiquette that superiors are not to be offered even a

> verbal fight. Even if they are sometimes harsh in behavior, they should

> not be harshly treated." (BG 2.4 purp.)

 

It is also a general etiquette not to criticize a spiritual master in

front of the disciples. Since this atiquette was not fallowed by the

superior, it is not strange that the inferiors feel hurt and want to protect

their faith in their spiritual masters. The best would be that superiors

show proper example in the first place, than the inferiors would naturally

follow their good example. This discussion was started by the superior who

in order to glorify the superior vaisnava has somehow managed to use a

technic of belitling other vaisnavas. After all, this IS an ISKCON

conference and atleast we should have enough sence to respect that the

disciples of ISKCON gurus are present here. There was no question of any

propaganda. Some were even asking Srila prabhu not to put us in this kind of

situation, but he continued to cut with his sadhus-knife and I think that he

could also take a part of responsibility that discussion has ended up in

this way.

[Guest guest]

> Since this atiquette was not fallowed by the

> superior, it is not strange that the inferiors feel hurt and want to

> protect their faith in their spiritual masters.

 

Blaspheming senior vaisnavas is NOT a way to protect one's spiritual master

but rather a way to disgrace him. If you don't like what Srila Prabhu is

saying

you should try to settle it with him alone and not extrapolate your

dissatisfaction on others.

 

> After all, this IS an ISKCON

> conference and atleast we should have enough sence to respect that the

> disciples of ISKCON gurus are present here. There was no question of any

> propaganda.

 

Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

blaspheme a vaisnava who is practicing KC more than fifty years,

who is a sannyasi since time when some of us weren't even born yet!

[Guest guest]

> Since this atiquette was not fallowed by the

> superior, it is not strange that the inferiors feel hurt and want to

> protect their faith in their spiritual masters.

 

Blaspheming senior vaisnavas is NOT a way to protect one's spiritual master

but rather a way to disgrace him. If you don't like what Srila Prabhu is

saying

you should try to settle it with him alone and not extrapolate your

dissatisfaction on others.

 

> After all, this IS an ISKCON

> conference and atleast we should have enough sence to respect that the

> disciples of ISKCON gurus are present here. There was no question of any

> propaganda.

 

Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

blaspheme a vaisnava who is practicing KC more than fifty years,

who is a sannyasi since time when some of us weren't even born yet!

[Guest guest]

>>Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

blaspheme a vaisnava>>

 

Two questions:

 

1) please point out where anyone blasphemed a senior Vaisnava

 

2) Speaking of etiquette, your letter is awfully harsh. Why do you feel it's

OK to talk like that to your mother?

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

>>Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

blaspheme a vaisnava>>

 

Two questions:

 

1) please point out where anyone blasphemed a senior Vaisnava

 

2) Speaking of etiquette, your letter is awfully harsh. Why do you feel it's

OK to talk like that to your mother?

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

It should be noted that the superior authorities that we are

concerned about are Srila Rupa Prabhupada Goswami, Srila Raghunatha

das Goswami, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and our own

very dear spiritual master Srila Prabhupada (A.C. Bhaktivedanta

Swami). Those whose actions and opinions differ from theirs, we are

not concerned with. Those who wish to put forward their authority in

contradiction to these actual authories are themselves not authories

or superiors that we wish recognize in a substantial way. Whether

they act as Acharyas or appear to be Acharyas or want to be

Acharyas is not our concern.

Those with insufficient experience may see things differently.

ISKCON was created by Srila Prabhupada for his followers and they are

expected for keep the standards and rules that he set.

Those who wish to follow something different or someone

different should keep to themselves as a matter of etiquette and

sobermindedness.

 

Your servant, Ramiya dasa

 

> [Text 2675513 from COM]

>

> > One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem to

> > find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

> > i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

> > non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

>

> Please stop making on public such unfounded offensive statements against a

> bona-fide vaisnava. Comparing NM to the infamous ISKCON Zonal Acarya system

> is ludicrous.

> It's a shame that junior devotees are allowed to make such propaganda

> against senior vaisnavas. It makes ISKCON look very weird in the eyes of the

> whole world.

>

> "It is general etiquette that superiors are not to be offered even a verbal

> fight. Even if they are sometimes harsh in behavior, they should not be

> harshly treated." (BG 2.4 purp.)

>

[Guest guest]

It should be noted that the superior authorities that we are

concerned about are Srila Rupa Prabhupada Goswami, Srila Raghunatha

das Goswami, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and our own

very dear spiritual master Srila Prabhupada (A.C. Bhaktivedanta

Swami). Those whose actions and opinions differ from theirs, we are

not concerned with. Those who wish to put forward their authority in

contradiction to these actual authories are themselves not authories

or superiors that we wish recognize in a substantial way. Whether

they act as Acharyas or appear to be Acharyas or want to be

Acharyas is not our concern.

Those with insufficient experience may see things differently.

ISKCON was created by Srila Prabhupada for his followers and they are

expected for keep the standards and rules that he set.

Those who wish to follow something different or someone

different should keep to themselves as a matter of etiquette and

sobermindedness.

 

Your servant, Ramiya dasa

 

> [Text 2675513 from COM]

>

> > One may also observe that some devotees (as their "mature" choice) seem to

> > find solace in switching from ZA over to AZ:

> > i.e. moving away from ISKCON's Zonal Acharyanism (ZA) only to support a

> > non-ISKCON Acharya currently building up his world Zone (AZ).

>

> Please stop making on public such unfounded offensive statements against a

> bona-fide vaisnava. Comparing NM to the infamous ISKCON Zonal Acarya system

> is ludicrous.

> It's a shame that junior devotees are allowed to make such propaganda

> against senior vaisnavas. It makes ISKCON look very weird in the eyes of the

> whole world.

>

> "It is general etiquette that superiors are not to be offered even a verbal

> fight. Even if they are sometimes harsh in behavior, they should not be

> harshly treated." (BG 2.4 purp.)

>

[Guest guest]

> > Since this atiquette was not fallowed by the

> > superior, it is not strange that the inferiors feel hurt and want to

> > protect their faith in their spiritual masters.

>

> Blaspheming senior vaisnavas is NOT a way to protect one's spiritual

> master but rather a way to disgrace him. If you don't like what Srila

> Prabhu is saying you should try to settle it with him alone and not

> extrapolate your dissatisfaction on others.

>

That is exactly the point that I made. That blaspheming other vaisnavas is

not the way to protect or glorify a vaisnava. Neither is your way of

writing. I just wonder how is it that you feel that you have a right to

write to me that way?

 

> > After all, this IS an ISKCON

> > conference and atleast we should have enough sence to respect that the

> > disciples of ISKCON gurus are present here. There was no question of any

> > propaganda.

>

> Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

> blaspheme a vaisnava who is practicing KC more than fifty years, who is a

> sannyasi since time when some of us weren't even born yet!

 

Could you please explain were have I blasphemed Narayana Maharaja, if you

are talking about him? I never wrote anything about him.

[Guest guest]

> > Since this atiquette was not fallowed by the

> > superior, it is not strange that the inferiors feel hurt and want to

> > protect their faith in their spiritual masters.

>

> Blaspheming senior vaisnavas is NOT a way to protect one's spiritual

> master but rather a way to disgrace him. If you don't like what Srila

> Prabhu is saying you should try to settle it with him alone and not

> extrapolate your dissatisfaction on others.

>

That is exactly the point that I made. That blaspheming other vaisnavas is

not the way to protect or glorify a vaisnava. Neither is your way of

writing. I just wonder how is it that you feel that you have a right to

write to me that way?

 

> > After all, this IS an ISKCON

> > conference and atleast we should have enough sence to respect that the

> > disciples of ISKCON gurus are present here. There was no question of any

> > propaganda.

>

> Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

> blaspheme a vaisnava who is practicing KC more than fifty years, who is a

> sannyasi since time when some of us weren't even born yet!

 

Could you please explain were have I blasphemed Narayana Maharaja, if you

are talking about him? I never wrote anything about him.

[Guest guest]

On 05 Oct 1999, Mundita Mastaka wrote:

 

 

>

> Blaspheming senior vaisnavas is NOT a way to protect one's spiritual master

but rather a way to disgrace him. If you don't like what Srila Prabhu is

saying you should try to settle it with him alone and not extrapolate your

dissatisfaction on others.

>

>

 

 

 

If you don't like what devotees have to say about what Srila Prabhu is saying,

you should try to settle it with them alone and not extrapolate your

dissatisfaction on others.

 

After all, that is what the advanced devotees have recommended for us!

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

On 05 Oct 1999, Mundita Mastaka wrote:

 

 

>

> Blaspheming senior vaisnavas is NOT a way to protect one's spiritual master

but rather a way to disgrace him. If you don't like what Srila Prabhu is

saying you should try to settle it with him alone and not extrapolate your

dissatisfaction on others.

>

>

 

 

 

If you don't like what devotees have to say about what Srila Prabhu is saying,

you should try to settle it with them alone and not extrapolate your

dissatisfaction on others.

 

After all, that is what the advanced devotees have recommended for us!

 

ys,

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

> That is exactly the point that I made. That blaspheming other vaisnavas

> is not the way to protect or glorify a vaisnava. Neither is your way of

> writing. I just wonder how is it that you feel that you have a right to

> write to me that way?

 

You tried to justify, which is as same as to support, the blasphemy. That

was

the reason of me being upset. Otherwise I have nothing against you.

 

> > Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

> > blaspheme a vaisnava who is practicing KC more than fifty years, who is

> > a sannyasi since time when some of us weren't even born yet!

>

> Could you please explain were have I blasphemed Narayana Maharaja, if

> you are talking about him? I never wrote anything about him.

 

I was writing in general, you could put "one" instead of "you". Sorry if you

took it otherwise.

[Guest guest]

> 1) please point out where anyone blasphemed a senior Vaisnava

 

As I said, comparing the preaching activity of NM to the ISKCON Zonal Acarya

system in which so many gross mistakes (if not evils) have been done, is a

direct blasphemy of a senior vaisnava.

 

> 2) Speaking of etiquette, your letter is awfully harsh. Why do you feel

> it's OK to talk like that to your mother?

 

According to sastra, one must protest agaings such a blasphemy, otherwise

one's bhakti will be gradually destroyed. As we aren't advised to cut the

tongues or commit a suicide, at least we have to say something. I'm sorry

that it did not come out very polite.

[Guest guest]

On 05 Oct 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote:

> >>Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

> blaspheme a vaisnava>>

>

> Two questions:

> 1) please point out where anyone blasphemed a senior Vaisnava

 

As a matter for everyone's information, my rather involved participation in

this topic, originally entitled "Taking Prabhupada Straight," was in response

to a paper entitled the same by one GBC member, which was improprietously

posted both on this and the Krsna Katha conferences. I felt it was my bounden

duty as an aspiring sadhaka to object to this *slanderous* (ie, "offensive")

letter, despite the fact it was authored by one of our leading GBC members.

 

If I have offended anyone in the process, I am sorry. While truth should be

palatably spoken, better it be spoken, even if it is not so palatable, then

not at all.

 

Subsequent to my objections, other devotees have posted supporting documents

from Bhudhara ("My Heartly Blessings") and Jnana dasa ("Shouting Like Hell")

which altogether firmly dismiss any substance to the slanderous accusations

set forth in the posting, "Taking Prabhupada Straight."

 

I have stated this before and I shall repeat it again: this entire fiasco

between Narayan Maharaja and ISKCON has been created by the GBC, just as the

GBC has done many times previously (the jiva issue, the rtvik issue, Zonal

acaryas, etc.). Instead of resolving issues peacefully, they have exacerbated

differences and misunderstandings to the breaking point.

 

But when anybody tries to cry "foul" to these unfair dealings, we are met with

a chorus of jeers, as if we were visitors rooting for the opposite team at a

home-game soccer match. It becomes no longer a matter of philosophy but a

question of who's side we are on.

 

I beg to inform all participants that we are all on the SAME SIDE, and we are

all trying to following Prabhupada to the best of our ability. As long as

sectarian spirit and aparadhas (on all levels) are being aggressively

propounded by the GBC leadership -- but we cannot say anything for fear of

being "politically correct" -- I seriously question what kind of Krsna-katha

or progress in varna-asrama our society can collectively make.

 

Rather than blame any person in particular, I have tried to steer the

discussion in a way that we might recognize the anomalous situation -- that

sadhu-ninda has not only been committed, but is reccurring, sponsored and

reinforced by current GBC policies and preaching.

 

Rather than continue with endless wrangling on the point, I respectfully

request the members of this conference, as well as all members and leaders of

ISKCON, to do some deep introspection as to whether these allegations against

specific GBC actions and policies are in fact valid.

 

If you don't possess the wherewithal to honor my humble entreaty -- due to my

poor presentation, natural defects, etc. -- then kindly let it pass.

 

But please be informed, through myself and others, that we suggest serious

transgressions of Vaisnava etiquette have been initiated and perpetuated by

the GBC, and until they are corrected, there will be no end to ISKCON's

internal disturbances.

 

Reagarding reiniations, if ISKCON initiates are leaving in droves, then the

question is not so much why Narayan Maharaja is offering them shelter and a

new conenction, but why these devotees feel so dissatisfied they are ready to

denounce their former ISKCON connections. This is the real question.

 

We cannot complain when people desert our company's product to patronize the

"competition." They may just have the superior product.

 

Until we do some genuine market research and our own quality control, how will

we ever really find out?

 

As I have humbly suggested as per the advice of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarasvati Prabhupada: When we find ourselves disappointed and frustrated by

others, don't criticize, but "Introspect. Find fault within."

 

As I write to you, so I speak to myself.

 

Hare Krsna.

 

As a servant of all the Vaisnavas,

 

Srila dasa

[Guest guest]

On 05 Oct 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote:

> >>Whether it's an ISKCON conference or not, you don't have a right to

> blaspheme a vaisnava>>

>

> Two questions:

> 1) please point out where anyone blasphemed a senior Vaisnava

 

As a matter for everyone's information, my rather involved participation in

this topic, originally entitled "Taking Prabhupada Straight," was in response

to a paper entitled the same by one GBC member, which was improprietously

posted both on this and the Krsna Katha conferences. I felt it was my bounden

duty as an aspiring sadhaka to object to this *slanderous* (ie, "offensive")

letter, despite the fact it was authored by one of our leading GBC members.

 

If I have offended anyone in the process, I am sorry. While truth should be

palatably spoken, better it be spoken, even if it is not so palatable, then

not at all.

 

Subsequent to my objections, other devotees have posted supporting documents

from Bhudhara ("My Heartly Blessings") and Jnana dasa ("Shouting Like Hell")

which altogether firmly dismiss any substance to the slanderous accusations

set forth in the posting, "Taking Prabhupada Straight."

 

I have stated this before and I shall repeat it again: this entire fiasco

between Narayan Maharaja and ISKCON has been created by the GBC, just as the

GBC has done many times previously (the jiva issue, the rtvik issue, Zonal

acaryas, etc.). Instead of resolving issues peacefully, they have exacerbated

differences and misunderstandings to the breaking point.

 

But when anybody tries to cry "foul" to these unfair dealings, we are met with

a chorus of jeers, as if we were visitors rooting for the opposite team at a

home-game soccer match. It becomes no longer a matter of philosophy but a

question of who's side we are on.

 

I beg to inform all participants that we are all on the SAME SIDE, and we are

all trying to following Prabhupada to the best of our ability. As long as

sectarian spirit and aparadhas (on all levels) are being aggressively

propounded by the GBC leadership -- but we cannot say anything for fear of

being "politically correct" -- I seriously question what kind of Krsna-katha

or progress in varna-asrama our society can collectively make.

 

Rather than blame any person in particular, I have tried to steer the

discussion in a way that we might recognize the anomalous situation -- that

sadhu-ninda has not only been committed, but is reccurring, sponsored and

reinforced by current GBC policies and preaching.

 

Rather than continue with endless wrangling on the point, I respectfully

request the members of this conference, as well as all members and leaders of

ISKCON, to do some deep introspection as to whether these allegations against

specific GBC actions and policies are in fact valid.

 

If you don't possess the wherewithal to honor my humble entreaty -- due to my

poor presentation, natural defects, etc. -- then kindly let it pass.

 

But please be informed, through myself and others, that we suggest serious

transgressions of Vaisnava etiquette have been initiated and perpetuated by

the GBC, and until they are corrected, there will be no end to ISKCON's

internal disturbances.

 

Reagarding reiniations, if ISKCON initiates are leaving in droves, then the

question is not so much why Narayan Maharaja is offering them shelter and a

new conenction, but why these devotees feel so dissatisfied they are ready to

denounce their former ISKCON connections. This is the real question.

 

We cannot complain when people desert our company's product to patronize the

"competition." They may just have the superior product.

 

Until we do some genuine market research and our own quality control, how will

we ever really find out?

 

As I have humbly suggested as per the advice of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarasvati Prabhupada: When we find ourselves disappointed and frustrated by

others, don't criticize, but "Introspect. Find fault within."

 

As I write to you, so I speak to myself.

 

Hare Krsna.

 

As a servant of all the Vaisnavas,

 

Srila dasa