Answer to Allegations Made Against H.H. Narayana Maharaja

[Guest guest]

>So, Srila Prabhu, I hope that I and the disciples of all other ISKCON gurus

>{whom you have criticised}, will never have to see your face.

 

What a "pleasant" response, Didi! Of course, you are not missing much,

though, as my face is surely not worth seeing, since it is wilting with the

rest of my body as the years go by.

 

But if you would kindly refer to the statements where I have *criticized*

anyone's guru by name inappropriately, please inform me. I have been careful

to avoid anything of the kind.

 

But you have brought up an important point: Even if our own guru makes some

mistake, should we not acknowledge that? Srila Prabhupada himself admitted

to making mistakes on different occasions. Should we try and deny that? ie,

Prabhupada made young boys sannyasis when they weren't qualified. Should we

try and deny that? It would be foolish to think out guru cannot err, even if

he is a mahabhagavata, what to speak of others.

 

The problem is when a devotee who is acting as a spiritual master for his

disciples continues to err but refuses to recognize or correct his mistakes.

And what to speak of the problems if the guru falls down from his devotional

service because of those mistakes. That is a real dilemma.

 

Not only does it forebode ill for the guru, but it becomes a very difficult

and uneasy situation for the disciples. How are they supposed to feel? In

such circumstances, the disciples should seek association with the guru's

close godbrother or another advanced devotee and ask them to approach their

guru to correct him. If this fails or is not available, then the disciples

MUST approach the guru themselves.

 

In the name of being being "faithful" disciples we cannot be *foolish*.

This is Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. We are not a "guru cult." Personality

cultism is the *katabhaja* deviation (one of the 13 apasiddhantas). To

think my guru is above all correction and not answerable to any other

(senior) Vaisnava is bogus. The spiritual master is the most humble servitor

of Hari, Guru and all Vaisnavas.

 

If have I mentioned your (former) guru maharaja in the past by name, it was

only in the context of correcting a misinformed disciple. Perhaps that

should have been done privately, but I thought my text was relevant to all

former disciples. I was obviously mistaken.

 

It is not considered fault-finding or *criticizing*, however, to point out a

mistake for the purpose of *correction*. Correction must also be done in the

mood of a genuine well-wisher and with affection.

 

I also have great affection for your guru maharaja and sorely feel his loss,

so try to see my genuine concern. Truthful words are sometimes hard to bear.

If you feel I have made some offense, forgive me for speaking too harshly or

insensitively. I am also imperfect and bound by my own subjective

impressions.

 

But you in turn must try to understand the reality is also greater than

yourself. Try to see the truth in everything and don't harbor grudges. See

everyone somehow as a well-wisher. In this regard, Srila Bhaktisiddhnata

informs us that those who criticize us are our greatest friends. Thank you

for instructing me.

 

We should never use the philosopher to intentionally hurt or insult others.

We use it as a beacon to guide our footsteps and of all our Prabhus. But we

need to use with tact and sensitivity. This is certainly where I fall short

of the mark.

 

Forgive me if my points were not clear.

 

Humbly,

 

Srila dasa

 

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[Guest guest]

> Why is it that these philosophical deviations require such lengthy

> treatises to support themselves, when the opposing argument can be stated

> in a sentence or two?

 

The treatise I have sent is an answer from the Narayana Maharaja´s camp to

the GBC´s 1996 position paper on Narayana Maharaja. GBC paper was also a

very lenghty document, so it´s natural that it deserves also a lenghty

answer.

 

Anor aniyam mahato mahiyam. Sometimes there is place for working with

slogans, sometimes it´s time for big treatises.

 

Ys

Bhagavata-Purana Dasa

[Guest guest]

> But if you would kindly refer to the statements where I have *criticized*

> anyone's guru by name inappropriately, please inform me. I have been

> careful to avoid anything of the kind.

>

You didn't criticized them by name but as a group. You have been very

critical about the GBC body. It is the truth that there were mistakes done

in the past in ISKCON and that there will be mistakes done in the future,

but that doesn't mean that there are no mistakes in other institutions as

well. It is also funny that while you are criticizing GBC for the way they

were doing things in regard to the Gaudiya Math, you are using the same

metod you are criticizing them for.

 

 

> If have I mentioned your (former) guru maharaja in the past by name, it

> was only in the context of correcting a misinformed disciple. Perhaps that

> should have been done privately, but I thought my text was relevant to all

> former disciples. I was obviously mistaken.

>

My guru maharaja is not my FORMER guru, he IS my guru. I already explained

that you didn't make him my guru, so you are not going to make him my former

guru either. You DID all the time use him as an example to show how BAD

ISKCON gurus are and how great Narayan Maharaj is. You didn't speak about

him making mistakes, you spoke about him being fallen. It is normal that

everybody makes mistakes, because that is one of the four things everybody

does while living in the material world. My guru maharaj has his own

Radha-Krishna Deities and he worships Them regularly, he is chanting and he

is engaged in the devotional service. In which way is he fallen? He gave up

sannyas asram and got married, that's the only sin he has done. He should

never had taken sannyas in the first place, not at 28 years of age, but he

did it for the purpose of spreading Krishna consciousness movement and

pleasing his spiritual master. Because, in that time nobody thought that

grihastas could preach too. Grihastas were by definition fallen and one had

to be sannyasi to be able to preach on the greater scale. And after all of

that service he has done you only can see how fallen he is. Yes, he has done

mistakes, but he is also right now working on correcting them.

 

Ys. Sraddha dd

[Guest guest]

> . Because, in that time nobody thought that

> grihastas could preach too. Grihastas were by definition fallen and one had

> to be sannyasi to be able to preach on the greater scale. And after all of

> that service he has done you only can see how fallen he is. Yes, he has done

> mistakes, but he is also right now working on correcting them.

>

> Ys. Sraddha dd

 

A philosophy in large part propagated by the misogynist Kirtananada who was the

only sannyasa in the movement for 3 years

[Guest guest]

> > . Because, in that time nobody thought that

> > grihastas could preach too. Grihastas were by definition fallen and one

> > had to be sannyasi to be able to preach on the greater scale. And after

> > all of that service he has done you only can see how fallen he is. Yes,

> > he has done mistakes, but he is also right now working on correcting

> > them.

> >

> > Ys. Sraddha dd

>

> A philosophy in large part propagated by the misogynist Kirtananada who

> was the only sannyasa in the movement for 3 years

 

You compare the "mistakes" of a proven criminal with someone whose only

"crime" was, that he renounced the order of sannyasa and the post of an

"official ISKCON guru", thats like comparing apples with oranges isn,t it?

 

Ys, Harsi das

[Guest guest]

> > > . Because, in that time nobody thought that

> > > grihastas could preach too. Grihastas were by definition fallen and

> > > one had to be sannyasi to be able to preach on the greater scale. And

> > > after all of that service he has done you only can see how fallen he

> > > is. Yes, he has done mistakes, but he is also right now working on

> > > correcting them.

> > >

> > > Ys. Sraddha dd

> >

> > A philosophy in large part propagated by the misogynist Kirtananada who

> > was the only sannyasa in the movement for 3 years

>

> You compare the "mistakes" of a proven criminal with someone whose only

> "crime" was, that he renounced the order of sannyasa and the post of an

> "official ISKCON guru", thats like comparing apples with oranges isn,t it?

>

> Ys, Harsi das

Harsi prabhu, I think that you misunderstood Madhavaghos prabhu. I think

that he agrees with me and says that philosophy that grihasthas are by the

definition fallen was something that Kirtananda, who was the only sannyasi

in the movement for 3 years, has preached. Is that right Madhava-ghos

prabhu?