Nobody wants to be a sudra?

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Vijaya venugopala Prabhu wrote:

 

>> > Hear , hear!

>> >

>> > Indian bodied persons have seen the live workings of the caste system,

>> > and the hatred which develops because of it. India continues to suffer

>> > immensely on this account.

>>

Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA) <janesvara (AT) com (DOT) org> wrote:

 

>> Hear! Hear!

>> Well, I think we had better just throw away Srila Prabhupada's whole idea

>> of varnasrama-dharma then. I mean, geez.

>

And Jatukarnya (das) HKS (Oslo - N) commented:

 

>My first thought also... I some times wonder how devotees can make points

>against establishing Daivi VA, when Srila Prabhupada was so clear

 

Even understanding your feelings and ambitions I think it is a superficial

response.

 

Vijaya Vanugopal Prabhu writes with personal experience (something you don't

have in VA) of what may happen if things go wrong. I don't think he is

objecting to DAIVI Varnasrama. He is objecting to VA and mismanaged one. He

is anxiouse to hear what Srila Prabhupada wanted.

 

I also anxiouse to hear any reference to Prabhupada where he tells that

guru should train his disciple to remain a shudra. Or what is the core and

basic difference between the daivi varnasrama and the mundane one.

 

But if you want you can offer some critical oppinion (in theoretical mode,

since you don't have even one generation experience of VA.) First of all one

has to shown where he is mistaken. Second one has to show how we in ISKCON

will not make the same mistake as the ones where done in India (where

shudras just converted to other movements) and above all when one does it

one should base it on the words of Prabhupada, not just some oppinions of

this devotee or that devotee. Every opinion should be counted but the basis

should be Prabhupadas words. Sorry to mention it.

 

Also there should be no information filter of the Prabhupadas words. When

Srila Prabhupada suggested that his disciples should remain sudras he never

followed it up with actions. And just a few days later he was making

comments about harijan movement in India that would contradict that as a

practical suggestion. When we quote the 1977 conversation in Mayapur we

should also quote the part where he is talking about black in USA, or value

of mundane education etc.,

 

Just to give an example we often quote Prabhupada that he said that 50% of

his work wasn't done and it is varnasrama. Here is another quote:

 

<<I can pass away at any moment. My health is not good. I am

old man. It is not surprising. Now you GBC, young boys, all, American,

expert, you have got all intelligence, resources, so don't spoil. Let

the movements go forward more and more. Now you have got nice places,

filled with devotees. Don't be anxious for me. That, Krsna will take.

And even if I go, where is the harm? Old man. I have given my ideas and

direction in my books. People appreciate. I think from my side I have

done everything. Is it not? Do you think or not?>> April 29, 1977

 

<<...That's all. Krsna is all-powerful. I am

only requesting that whatever I have done, you don't spoil it. That's

all. Think this. I am getting report, very hopeful, as you gave report

from Mayapura, very good...>> Vrindaban, May 24, 1977

 

<<Prabhupada: In this condition, even I cannot

move my body on the bed. Only chance you should give me--let me die

little peacefully, without any anxiety. I have given in writing

everything, whatever you wanted--my will, my executive power,

everything. Disaster will happen if you cannot manage it. Hm?

 

Tamala Krsna: Yes, we do not want any disaster to happen. Our only business

as your sons and servants is to maintain what you have established. Even

if we don't increase it, if we just maintain it...

 

Prabhupada: Yes.>>

Vrindaban, October 2, 1977