Everybody is born sudra. No one has to remain... Meateater?

[Guest guest]

>> Is it possible to define terms>?

right definition of a sudra in the context of the

>> discussion on eating meat gambling and prostitution to be acceptible?

>> First two, seems to me, doesn't make him any less then others or more

>> fallen.

>>

>> Other definitions?

 

Thanks for your reply Mahava Ghosh Prabhu:

 

>How about Krsna's definitions:

>

>BG 18 vs 41-45

>

>"Brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas and sudras are distinguished by their

>qualities of work, O chastiser of the enemy, in accordance with the modes

>of nature.

---

>Farming, cattle raising and business are the qualities of work for the

>vaisyas, and for the sudras there is labor and service to others.By

>following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. now please

>hear from Me how this can be done."

 

Ok it's by karma. "Qualities of work".

 

paricaryatmakam karma

sudrasyapi svabhava-jam

 

So one who is seving others - paricarya - (ie doesn't have qualities of

krsi, goraksya, vanijyam - plowing, cowprotections and trade; or ksatrya or

brahmana qualities) is sudra.

 

Does it means that devotees in ISKCON who will fit in this category will be

subjected to the following?>

 

>> For example should sudras be allowed intoxication or meat eating (not

>> cows but goats)?

>Sd: Let's see what Srila Prabhupada says:

>"Sudras and poor men were allowed to fish..." SB 4.19.9

>"Sudras, too, eat animals such as goats..." S.B. 6.4.9.

>"And the sudras, they also sometimes eat meat"

>"The sudras, they can take a goat and sacrifice it before the Deity of the

>goddess Kali and then they can eat. No one should be given unrestricted

>freedom to eat meat or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine there is

>Durga puja, Candi puja. That means restriction. Under certain conditions."

 

 

>Key thing is , perfection can be achieved by anyone. The difference is,

>of those to whom much is given, much is expected. A sudra who serves

>wholeheartedly has a better chance at perfection than a leader who lacks

>generosity or a brahman who lacks honesty.

 

I agree. However he should be given a chance to be educated for something

better. For now there was no educational system that was designed to elevate

people gradually. And only if one fails/resitant to take this education will

he remain a sudra. before the educational system is there no one is

qualified even to be a sudra...

 

>Sudras recieve their compensation immediately, vaisyas have to have the

>patience to wait and see a broader picture. Ksatriyas have to have an

>even broader picture, because they are maintaining the broader culture

>wherein the vaisyas can create wealth, and they don't get a share until

>after the vaisya has gotten his. The brahman takes the broadest view of

>all, as he is responsible for educating the children that will grow into

>the other roles of society.

 

Look like a very logical system. Isn't it? Why cannot it work without sudras

?(I understand that sudras are always there, but I mean ideally "Vaikuntha

atmosphere" or example of Vrindavana.)

 

>In the list of qualities of devotees that Sita posted , one was to be a

>servant. Unless you can be a sudra, with proper serving attitude, you

>cannot be qualified for the higher varnas. It is included.

 

Yes everyone should be educated gradually. The basics should be for

everyone. Doesn't matter one is Vaisnava or not (means not only

vaisnavas/devotees should participate in VA projects, lets invite people who

are professionals and let them be sudras). But specifically for Vaisnavas

there should be appropriate services.

 

 

ys ccd