addressing to person in varnasrama

January 1, 1999

PAMHO AGTSP

Some time ago in the conference I've seen discussion about

how to address vaisnava or vaisanavi. It seems that it was

not complete, so I offer to continue it with following

information from Manu smriti:

121. He who habitually salutes and constantly pays reverence to

the aged obtains an increase of four (things), (viz.) length of life,

knowledge, fame, (and) strength.

122. After the (word of) salutation, a Brahmana who greets an

elder must pronounce his name, saying, 'I am N. N.'

123. To those (persons) who, when a name is pronounced, do not

understand (the meaning of) the salutation, a wise man should say,

'It is I;' and (he should address) in the same manner all women.

124. In saluting he should pronounce after his name the word

bhoh; for the sages have declared that the nature of bhoh is the

same as that of (all proper) names.

125. A Brahmana should thus be saluted in return, 'May'st thou be

long-lived, O gentle one!' and the vowel 'a' must be added at the

end of the name (of the person addressed), the syllable preceding it

being drawn out to the length of three moras.

126. A Brahmana who does not know the form of returning a

salutation, must not be saluted by a learned man; as a Sudra, even

so is he.

127. Let him ask a Brahmana, on meeting him, after (his health,

with the word) kusala, a Kshatriya (with the word) anamaya, a Vaisya

(with the word) kshema, and a Sudra (with the word) anarogya.

128. He who has been initiated (to perform a Srauta sacrifice)

must not be addressed by his name, even though he be a younger man; he

who knows the sacred law must use in speaking to such (a man the

particle) bhoh and (the pronoun) bhavat (your worship).

129. But to a female who is the wife of another man, and not a

blood-relation, he must say, 'Lady' (bhavati) or 'Beloved sister!'

130. To his maternal and paternal uncles, fathers-in-law,

officiating priests, (and other) venerable persons, he must say, 'I

am N. N.,' and rise (to meet them), even though they be younger (than

himself).

131. A maternal aunt, the wife of a maternal uncle, a

mother-in-law, and a paternal aunt must be honoured like the wife of

one's teacher; they are equal to the wife of one's teacher.

132. (The feet of the) wife of one's brother, if she be of the

same caste (varna), must be clasped every day; but (the feet of) wives of

(other) paternal and maternal relatives need only be embraced on

one's return from a journey.

133. Towards a sister of one's father and of one's mother, and

towards one's own elder sister, one must behave as towards one's

mother; (but) the mother is more venerable than they.

134. Fellow-citizens are called friends (and equals though one

be) ten years (older than the other), men practising (the same) fine

art (though one be) five years (older than the other), Srotriyas

(though) three years (intervene between their ages), but

blood-relations only (if the) difference of age be very small.

135. Know that a Brahmana of ten years and Kshatriya of a hundred

years stand to each other in the relation of father and son; but

between those two the Brahmana is the father.

136. Wealth, kindred, age, (the due performance of) rites, and,

fifthly, sacred learning are titles to respect; but each later-named

(cause) is more weighty (than the preceding ones).

137. Whatever man of the three (highest) castes possesses most of

those five, both in number and degree, that man is worthy of honour

among them; and (so is) also a Sudra who has entered the tenth

(decade of his life).

Dear sanskrit scholars, what are your comments?

BTW, anybody tired from constant referring to Manu smriti?

I don't want to be a biggest mouth and load the whole conference

with my imperfect speculations.

January 1, 1999

At 14:57 -0800 1/1/99, COM: (Bhakta) Oleg Demtchenko (Nikolaev - RU) wrote:

>Some time ago in the conference I've seen discussion about

>how to address vaisnava or vaisanavi. It seems that it was

>not complete, so I offer to continue it with following

>information from Manu smriti:

>

Hare Krsna Prabhu said it best when she reminded us that Srila Prabhupada

has already shown us how to behave and what processes to follow. He knew

what was appropriate for this age and what was not. I believe it was

Jayasri Prabhu who suggested that we pay attention only (or primarily?) to

those parts of the Manu Samhita which were emphasized by Prabhupada. Now,

in the matter of what to call each other, Prabhupada was very clear. Why

then go back to the Manu Samhita and try to figure out how to do it

"better" . Why not simply follow Prabhupada's instructions?

Here is a series of quotes, compiled by Vishaka Prabhu on this topic,

re-posted with permission.

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

SRILA PRABHUPADA ON THE USE OF THE ADDRESS "PRABHU"

1. Even the Spiritual Master sees his disciples as “prabhu”

We are teaching our disciples to address amongst themselves “prabhu.”

This is not new thing. This is very old. Now Närada is addressing

Vyäsadeva, “prabhu,” his disciple. His disciple, he’s addressing prabhu.

So we should give respect. Just like we address, “Kirtanänanda

Mahäräja.” Although he’s my disciple, but the respect should be given.

Here, see, Närada is addressing Vyäsadeva: “Prabhu.” “My dear prabhu. .

(lecture, SB 1.5.1-4, May 22, 1969)

A spiritual master takes his disciples as his spiritual master. That is

the position. He thinks that “Krishna has sent me so many spiritual

masters.” He does not think himself as spiritual master. He thinks

himself their servant. Because they have to be trained. Krishna has

appointed him to train them. Therefore he thinks himself as servant of

the disciples. This is the position. So when one is advanced, he can see

the importance of devotees.

Advanced devotee never disobey or disrespect another devotee. Disrespect

to another devotee is a great offense. Vaishnava aparädha. Vaishnava

aparädha is very serious offense. Therefore we teach to address amongst

the devotees, “Prabhu”, “Prabhu”, “Such and such Prabhu.” This should

not be simply spoken by the lips. It should be realized. Everyone should

think other devotee as his prabhu, master. Not he should try to become

master.

trnäd api sunicena

taror api sahisnunä

amäninä mänadena...

Mänadena. We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only

devotees, but everyone. Everyone. Because every living entity is

originally a devotee of Krishna. But circumstantially, being covered by

the coat of mäyä, he’s playing like demon. But his original nature is a

devotee of Krishna. Jivera svarüpa haya nitya krsnera däsa. Everyone is

eternally servant of Krishna. But being influenced by mäyä, when he gets

this body, given by mäyä... Prakrteh kriyamänäni gunaih karmäni

sarvasah, when he’s conducted by the three gunas of mäyä, he thinks

himself otherwise. He thinks himself independent of Krishna. But

actually, nobody is independent of Krishna. (lecture NOD October 23,

1972)

2. Devotees address each other as “prabhu”

We advise everyone to address one another as Prabhu. Prabhu means

master, so how the master should be disobeyed? Others, they are also

pure devotees. All of my disciples are pure devotees. Anyone sincerely

serving the spiritual master is a pure devotee . . . Do not try to make

a faction . . . Amongst ourselves one should respect others as Prabhu,

master, one another. As soon as we distinguish here is a pure devotee,

here is a non-pure devotee, that means I am a nonsense. (letter to Tusta

Krishna December 14, 1972)

Any Vaisnava is addressed as prabhu, but Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu is

Mahäprabhu, the topmost prabhu, the master prabhu. All others are

servant prabhu. . . all Vaisnava should be addressed as prabhu; that is

the etiquette. (CcAdi 7.2 lecture March 2, 1974)

In Krishna consciousness we address our contemporaries as ”prabhu.”

Prabhu means master. And the real idea is that “You are my master, I am

your servant.” Just the opposite number. Here, in the material world,

everyone wants to place himself as the master. “I am your master, you

are my servant.” That is the mentality of material existence. And the

spiritual existence means “I am the servant, you are the master.” Just

see. Just the opposite number. (lecture Bg 4.9, June 19, 1968)

A real devotee, he does not show any disrespect even to the ant, and

what to speak of the demigods, because he is in knowledge that “Every

living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. They’re playing

different parts only. So in relationship with the Supreme Lord they’re

all my respectables.” Therefore a devotee is taught to address all his

contemporaries as “Prabhu, my dear sir, my dear lord.” That is the

position of Krishna consciousness. (lecture Bg 7.18 October 12, 1966)

3. Women devotees as well as men devotees are addressed as “prabhu”

The Lord Caitanya is called Mahäprabhu. Mahän-prabhu. Prabhu, master.

There are different kinds of master, but He’s the mahän-prabhu, the

Supreme Master, Supreme Master, and Purusa at the same time. Prabhu, you

can say... A woman also can become the master. . . (Cc Adi 7.108 lecture

February 18, 1967)

Now another thing, that girls should not be taken as inferior. You see?

Sometimes... Of course, sometimes scripture we say that “Woman is the

cause of bondage.” So that should not be, I mean to say, aggravated.

(laughs) That should not be aggravated, that “Woman is inferior,” or

something like that. So the girls who come, you should treat them nicely

. . After all, anyone who is coming to Krishna consciousness, man or

woman, boys or girls, they are welcome. They are very fortunate. You

see. And the idea of addressing “prabhu” means “you are my master.” That

is the... Prabhu means master. And Prabhupäda means many masters who

bows down at his lotus feet. That is Prabhupäda. So each, everyone shall

treat others as “My master.” This is the Vaisnava (September 24, 1968

conversation)

>From a letter to Himavati Devi Dasi, June 14, 1968:

Yes, to call one another prabhu is all right, but not to become prabhu.

To accept others as prabhu, and remain as servant is the idea. But

because somebody is calling you prabhu, one should not become a prabhu,

and treat others as servants. In other words, everyone should feel

himself as servant, and not to think himself prabhu because he is being

called prabhu. This will make the relationship congenial.

4. Srila Prabhupada addressed his male and female disciples as “prabhu”

My Dear Ranadhira,

Please accept my blessings. . . Yes, I have all blessings for the happy

marriage of Haladhara Prabhu and Joan Prabhu, so you may immediately do

the needful in this regards. (16 February, 1971)

My Dear Rsabhadeva,

Please accept my blessings. . . So long as there is Guru-Gauranga

worship, Yamuna Prabhu may act as pujari . . . (March 25, 1971)

Anna Prabhu may be initiated also and she has my blessings for being

married to Puranda at the earliest convenience. (letter to Mukunda April

13, 1971)

So the stock of japa beads I brought with me has been depleted. Malati

Prabhu was supposed to have brought some beads with her from India, and

so I would like that those beads be sent immediately to N.Y. center by

air. (letter to Tribhuvanatha July 4, 1971)

My Dear Kirtanananda Maharaja, Vrindaban Candra, and Silavati,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letters

just now received by me here in Calcutta and describing your plans for

travelling Sankirtana party, and it is very much encouraging news for

me. Silavati Prabhu said that this was her long cherished dream. It has

been mine also. . . (November 6, 1971)

In Los Angeles I personally advised them in all the different aspects of

deity worship, so you may consult, especially with Silavati Prabhu (now

in Dallas) and do the needful. . . (letter to Sri Govinda, January 31,

1973)

My dear Gangamayi,

Please accept my blessings. . . I am glad to hear that you are

determined to stay and live in the temple now and that you are becoming

very much attached to the Deity worship and very serious about serving

the Deity along with Malati Prabhu. . . (May 9, 1974)

My Dear Sacimata Prabhu,

Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated 3rd

October 1976 and I have noted the contents carefully. . .

Conclusion

. . there is a place which is full of eternal happiness. So this life

should be engaged for that purpose, not to fight like cats and dogs.

That is not very credit. Credit means ruining one’s life. If one fights

like cats and dogs, he becomes cats and dogs. Nature’s law is very

strict. Therefore we should be very careful not to become like cats and

dogs but to become very humble—humbler than the grass and tolerant than

the tree. Amäninä. Everyone wants that “I am very honorable man,

prestigious man. And you should respect me.” That is our material

disease. “I do not want to respect you, but you should offer me

respect.” This is the position. Therefore our system is to call another

Vaishnava as prabhu. “Sir, you are prabhu, you are master.” But we call

prabhu, but I think, “No, you are not prabhu; I am prabhu. You are

servant.” This cheating process will not help us. Actually, we should

believe that he is prabhu. “He is servant of Krishna; therefore he is my

prabhu.” This is Vaisnava mentality. Gopi-bhartur pada-kamalayor

däsa-däsa-däsa-däsänudäsa. One who wants to become servant of the

servant of the servant of the servant, he is actually prabhu. If falsely

one thinks that “I am prabhu,” then his life is spoiled. So this word we

use amongst ourself, prabhu, means that “I am your servant, you are my

master.” But that should be practically exhibited. That is called

tapasya, to learn all these things. (lecture SB 5.5.1, October 23, 1976)

January 1, 1999