Guest guest Posted January 1, 1999 Report Share Posted January 1, 1999 At 14:57 -0800 1/1/99, COM: (Bhakta) Oleg Demtchenko (Nikolaev - RU) wrote: >[Text 1981313 from COM] > >> "While the calf, ever butting with its head, one knee slightly bent, and >> its tail ever moving prettily, sucks its mother's udder whence the milk >> drips, the cow, lowing softly in delight at her child, licks the upturned >> face of the young one whose mouth is flecked by spots from her milk." > >You mean we all should look at matajis as a calf looks on his cow mother? >But we shouldn't expect milk from them, should we? No. Besides, staring at women's breasts on the pretense of imitating a calf is udderly ridiculous. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 1999 Report Share Posted January 1, 1999 > At 14:57 -0800 1/1/99, COM: (Bhakta) Oleg Demtchenko (Nikolaev - RU) > wrote: > >[Text 1981313 from COM] > > > >> "While the calf, ever butting with its head, one knee slightly bent, > >> and its tail ever moving prettily, sucks its mother's udder whence the > >> milk drips, the cow, lowing softly in delight at her child, licks the > >> upturned face of the young one whose mouth is flecked by spots from her > >> milk." > > > >You mean we all should look at matajis as a calf looks on his cow mother? > >But we shouldn't expect milk from them, should we? > > No. Besides, staring at women's breasts on the pretense of imitating a > calf is udderly ridiculous. > > Ys, > Madhusudani dasi How about expecting motherly affection? ys KKdas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 1999 Report Share Posted January 1, 1999 >> >You mean we all should look at matajis as a calf looks on his cow mother? >> >But we shouldn't expect milk from them, should we? >> >> No. Besides, staring at women's breasts on the pretense of imitating a >> calf is udderly ridiculous. >> >> Ys, >> Madhusudani dasi > >How about expecting motherly affection? Absolutely. Devotee men who treat devotee women respectfully as mothers should expect to be treated with motherly affection. However, I can tell you that few mothers would respond with affection if their sons started calling them whores, nazis and niggers. Both parties thus have to honor the mother-son relationship for it to work. I'm also certain that Prabhupada did not expect the men to be staring at the women's breasts, just like he certainly wouldn't expect us to toilet train you either. :-) Ys, Madhusudani dasi ps. please don't add any additional conference to your reply this time, my dear son. Thank you for respecting my wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 1999 Report Share Posted January 2, 1999 On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, COM: (Bhakta) Greg Harraz (San Jose, CA - USA) wrote: > Great words! What is the exact source of this quote? I believe it's from the SubhASitAvalI of MayUra. I made no attempt to improve upon A.B. Kieth's translation (in his _History of Sanskrit Literature_, pg. 212). To my knowledge, MayUra isn't considered a pure vaiSNava, but this verse is certainly appreciable to any human being, whoever wrote it. However, it's also a fact that MayUra has been quoted copiously by RUpa GosvAmI in his anthology PadyAvalI, so it seems that he thought highly of MAyUra's writing, if nothing else. I think the auspicious picture this verse produces in the mind can help to purify one's material existence. We all know how important it is to become pious (GItA, 7.28); perhaps more thoughts like this may help us effect this. What does it actually mean? Well, let's remember, poetry is subjective, and good poetry always accomodates many interpretations. In fact, most Vedic literature, including even the BhAgavatam, is also poetry. Those who vociferously assert their views about it may do well to remember this fact. As far as I'm concerned, this verse is the picture of motherhood, vAtsalya. This very word for maternal affection is derived from the word, "vatsa," calf. In Vedic culture, the love of a cow for her calf is thus considered to be the paragon of motherly love, or even of love in general, since the purest love in this world is maternal love. It will do us good to consider all these things when we call someone our mother; that word carries all the superlative respect as does the term "prabhu." Hence, I said see all matajis like this. Hare Krishna. MDd > > AhatyAhatya-mUrdhnA drutam anupibataH prasnutaM mAtur UdhaH kiJcit > > kuJcaika-jAnor anavarata-calac-cAru-pucchasya dhenuH uttIrNaM tarNakasya > > priya-tanayatayA datta-huGkAra-mudrA > > visraGsi-kSIra-dhArA-lavazabala-mukhasyAGgam AtRpti leDhi > > > > "While the calf, ever butting with its head, one knee slightly bent, and > > its tail ever moving prettily, sucks its mother's udder whence the milk > > drips, the cow, lowing softly in delight at her child, licks the upturned > > face of the young one whose mouth is flecked by spots from her milk." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 1999 Report Share Posted January 2, 1999 >Could you clarify your statement? I wasn't sure how to take it. That was a joke. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 1999 Report Share Posted January 3, 1999 Dear Mukunda Datta prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances, All glories to Srila Prabhupada! In response to your information about motherly affection, your words were very much appreciated. I hope that everyone takes your message to heart! On the other hand, your inference that the Vedic literature (you mentioned Srimad Bhagavatam specifically) is poetry, and therefore accomodating to many interpretations is strange, to say the least. Perhaps you did not mean exactly what you said? ---"M. Tandy" <mpt@u.washington.edu> wrote: > What does it actually mean? Well, let's remember, poetry is > subjective, and good poetry always accomodates many interpretations. > In fact, most Vedic literature, including even the BhAgavatam, is > also poetry. Those who vociferously assert their views about it may > do well to remember this fact. I do not believe that this is Srila Prabhupada's mood, do you? Srila Prabhupada was clear that there was only one interpretation of Vedic literature, and that is the interpretation which leads the reader to the knowledge of the Supreme Lord Krsna. "Therefore we have published this Bhagavad-gita. It is the essence of all Vedic literature, Bhagavad-gita as it is. You have to learn Bhagavad-gita as it is. Don't interpret in your own way. There is no possibility. But people do it, and foolish persons, they accept it. No, there is no question of interpretation." (Lecture at Int. Student Society-Boston, May 3, 1969) Have I misunderstood your words? If so, would you care to clarify your position so that I may be corrected? your humble servant Devarsi Muni dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 1999 Report Share Posted January 3, 1999 Dear Mukunda Datta prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances, All glories to Srila Prabhupada! In response to your information about motherly affection, your words were very much appreciated. I hope that everyone takes your message to heart! On the other hand, your inference that the Vedic literature (you mentioned Srimad Bhagavatam specifically) is poetry, and therefore accomodating to many interpretations is strange, to say the least. Perhaps you did not mean exactly what you said? ---"M. Tandy" <mpt@u.washington.edu> wrote: > What does it actually mean? Well, let's remember, poetry is > subjective, and good poetry always accomodates many interpretations. > In fact, most Vedic literature, including even the BhAgavatam, is > also poetry. Those who vociferously assert their views about it may > do well to remember this fact. I do not believe that this is Srila Prabhupada's mood, do you? Srila Prabhupada was clear that there was only one interpretation of Vedic literature, and that is the interpretation which leads the reader to the knowledge of the Supreme Lord Krsna. "Therefore we have published this Bhagavad-gita. It is the essence of all Vedic literature, Bhagavad-gita as it is. You have to learn Bhagavad-gita as it is. Don't interpret in your own way. There is no possibility. But people do it, and foolish persons, they accept it. No, there is no question of interpretation." (Lecture at Int. Student Society-Boston, May 3, 1969) Have I misunderstood your words? If so, would you care to clarify your position so that I may be corrected? your humble servant Devarsi Muni dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 1999 Report Share Posted January 3, 1999 On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, COM: Devarsi Muni (das) VMS (Crescent City, CA - USA) wrote: > Please accept my humble obeisances, > All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my respectful obeisances. Jaya Prabhupada! > In response to your information about motherly affection, > your words were very much appreciated. I hope that everyone > takes your message to heart! Thanks for your encouraging words! > On the other hand, your inference that the Vedic literature (you > mentioned Srimad Bhagavatam specifically) is poetry, and therefore > accomodating to many interpretations is strange, to say the least. > Perhaps you did not mean exactly what you said? > ---"M. Tandy" <mpt@u.washington.edu> wrote: > > What does it actually mean? Well, let's remember, poetry is > > subjective, and good poetry always accomodates many interpretations. > > In fact, most Vedic literature, including even the BhAgavatam, is > > also poetry. Those who vociferously assert their views about it may > > do well to remember this fact. > I do not believe that this is Srila Prabhupada's mood, do you? Srila > Prabhupada was clear that there was only one interpretation of Vedic > literature, and that is the interpretation which leads the reader to > the knowledge of the Supreme Lord Krsna. Of course. No, I didn't mean to question this at all. I was suggesting authoritative interpretations of relatively minor importance. > "Therefore we have published this Bhagavad-gita. It is the essence of > all Vedic literature, Bhagavad-gita as it is. You have to learn > Bhagavad-gita as it is. Don't interpret in your own way. There is no > possibility. But people do it, and foolish persons, they accept it. > No, there is no question of interpretation." > (Lecture at Int. Student Society-Boston, May 3, 1969) > Have I misunderstood your words? If so, would you care to clarify your > position so that I may be corrected? I was just trying to point out that whether we agree with someone else's interpretation or not, it IS possible to interpret the BhAgavata, etc., in slightly different ways. The importance of this fact is that even among vaiSNavas, there are differences of opinion which guru/sAdhu/zAstra can accommodate. I think this is extremely relevant nowadays. Sorry if I confused anyone. MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 1999 Report Share Posted January 3, 1999 On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, COM: Devarsi Muni (das) VMS (Crescent City, CA - USA) wrote: > Please accept my humble obeisances, > All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my respectful obeisances. Jaya Prabhupada! > In response to your information about motherly affection, > your words were very much appreciated. I hope that everyone > takes your message to heart! Thanks for your encouraging words! > On the other hand, your inference that the Vedic literature (you > mentioned Srimad Bhagavatam specifically) is poetry, and therefore > accomodating to many interpretations is strange, to say the least. > Perhaps you did not mean exactly what you said? > ---"M. Tandy" <mpt@u.washington.edu> wrote: > > What does it actually mean? Well, let's remember, poetry is > > subjective, and good poetry always accomodates many interpretations. > > In fact, most Vedic literature, including even the BhAgavatam, is > > also poetry. Those who vociferously assert their views about it may > > do well to remember this fact. > I do not believe that this is Srila Prabhupada's mood, do you? Srila > Prabhupada was clear that there was only one interpretation of Vedic > literature, and that is the interpretation which leads the reader to > the knowledge of the Supreme Lord Krsna. Of course. No, I didn't mean to question this at all. I was suggesting authoritative interpretations of relatively minor importance. > "Therefore we have published this Bhagavad-gita. It is the essence of > all Vedic literature, Bhagavad-gita as it is. You have to learn > Bhagavad-gita as it is. Don't interpret in your own way. There is no > possibility. But people do it, and foolish persons, they accept it. > No, there is no question of interpretation." > (Lecture at Int. Student Society-Boston, May 3, 1969) > Have I misunderstood your words? If so, would you care to clarify your > position so that I may be corrected? I was just trying to point out that whether we agree with someone else's interpretation or not, it IS possible to interpret the BhAgavata, etc., in slightly different ways. The importance of this fact is that even among vaiSNavas, there are differences of opinion which guru/sAdhu/zAstra can accommodate. I think this is extremely relevant nowadays. Sorry if I confused anyone. MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 1999 Report Share Posted January 4, 1999 > I was just trying to point out that whether we agree with someone else's > interpretation or not, it IS possible to interpret the BhAgavata, etc., in > slightly different ways. The importance of this fact is that even among > vaiSNavas, there are differences of opinion which guru/sAdhu/zAstra can > accommodate. I think this is extremely relevant nowadays. Sorry if I > confused anyone. Unity in diversity, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 1999 Report Share Posted January 4, 1999 > I was just trying to point out that whether we agree with someone else's > interpretation or not, it IS possible to interpret the BhAgavata, etc., in > slightly different ways. The importance of this fact is that even among > vaiSNavas, there are differences of opinion which guru/sAdhu/zAstra can > accommodate. I think this is extremely relevant nowadays. Sorry if I > confused anyone. Unity in diversity, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 1999 Report Share Posted January 4, 1999 "nothing so transcendental as a calf sucking from its mother..." do you have loose screws or what? that´s not the definition of transcnedental that Prabhupada gave. ys madanalasa dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 1999 Report Share Posted January 4, 1999 "nothing so transcendental as a calf sucking from its mother..." do you have loose screws or what? that´s not the definition of transcnedental that Prabhupada gave. ys madanalasa dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 COM: Padmanabha (das) HKS (NJNK - D) wrote: > [Text 1987937 from COM] > > "nothing so transcendental as a calf sucking from its mother..." > > do you have loose screws or what? that´s not the definition of > transcnedental that Prabhupada gave. > ys madanalasa dd The following neither prove nor disprove either of the aboveK B 14“Therefore, my dear Lord, I pray that I may be so fortunate that in this life or in another life, wherever I may take my birth, I may be counted as one of Your devotees. Wherever I may be, I pray that I may be engaged in Your devotional service. I do not even care what form of life I get in the future, because I can see that even in the form of cows and calves or cowherd boys, the devotees are so fortunate to be always engaged in Your transcendental loving service and association. Therefore I wish to be one of them instead of such an exalted person as I am now, for I am full of ignorance. The gopis and cows of Vrindaban are so fortunate that they have been able to supply their breast milk to You. Conversation 10-14-77 Pradyumna: Er, er, “Then Lord Balaräma, thinking in this way,” iti saïcintya, vayunena cakñuñä, “with the eye of knowledge”? Prabhupada: Transcendental knowledge. Pradyumna: “...with the eye of transcendental knowledge.” Sarvän sa-vayasän (sahacarän) vatsän (goçävakän) api vaikuëöham (Sri Krsna eva) äcañöa (apaçyat): “He saw all those calves as Sri Krsna only.” Vaikuntha Sri Krsna eva apaçyat: “He saw that all those calves were Krsna.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 COM: Padmanabha (das) HKS (NJNK - D) wrote: > [Text 1987937 from COM] > > "nothing so transcendental as a calf sucking from its mother..." > > do you have loose screws or what? that´s not the definition of > transcnedental that Prabhupada gave. > ys madanalasa dd The following neither prove nor disprove either of the aboveK B 14“Therefore, my dear Lord, I pray that I may be so fortunate that in this life or in another life, wherever I may take my birth, I may be counted as one of Your devotees. Wherever I may be, I pray that I may be engaged in Your devotional service. I do not even care what form of life I get in the future, because I can see that even in the form of cows and calves or cowherd boys, the devotees are so fortunate to be always engaged in Your transcendental loving service and association. Therefore I wish to be one of them instead of such an exalted person as I am now, for I am full of ignorance. The gopis and cows of Vrindaban are so fortunate that they have been able to supply their breast milk to You. Conversation 10-14-77 Pradyumna: Er, er, “Then Lord Balaräma, thinking in this way,” iti saïcintya, vayunena cakñuñä, “with the eye of knowledge”? Prabhupada: Transcendental knowledge. Pradyumna: “...with the eye of transcendental knowledge.” Sarvän sa-vayasän (sahacarän) vatsän (goçävakän) api vaikuëöham (Sri Krsna eva) äcañöa (apaçyat): “He saw all those calves as Sri Krsna only.” Vaikuntha Sri Krsna eva apaçyat: “He saw that all those calves were Krsna.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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