Vaisnava? -We are not so impudent & naraki-buddhi

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>WWW: Gauranga Prema (Dasa) (ISKCON San-Diego) wrote:

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>> [Text 1657621 from COM]

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>>

>> On 28 Aug 1998, Ananda das wrote:

>>

>> > Prabhupada has said that a Vaisnava is

>> > already automatically a brahmana, and that the highest stage of >> >

>> > brahminical perfection is reached when one becomes a Vaisnava. >> >

>> > Clearly, Prabhupada was only interested in training Vaisnavas. It

>> > apparent that Prabhupada was interested NOT ONLY in training Vaisnavas.

>> > He wanted to expand the training that we organized in ISKCON using VA

>> > college (1974 Vrindavana talks).

>>

>> > we have to realise that VAD is NOT for the devotee

>> > community.

>>

>> > The initiated devotees in ISKCON are Vaisnavas and, as such, they

>> > >> > are already transcendental to all varnas. It is nonsense to

>> > talk of >> > implementing VAD within the community of devotees.

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>> >> -

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>Room Conversation Mayapur, February 14, 1977 770214R2.MAY

>

>Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

>Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahmana, ksatriyas. There must be regular

>>education.

 

Here it is evident that Prabhupada is talking about the education too.

 

>Hari-sauri: But in our community, if the..., being as we're

>training up as Vaisnavas...

>Prabhupada: Yes.

And here Prabhupada confirms the function of ISKCON.

 

>Hari-sauri: ...then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?

>>Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be

>>established >to become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.

>Hari-sauri: No, it's not a cheap thing.

>Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become

>>Vaisnava, is >not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why

>so many fall >down, fall down? It is not easy.

>

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>Hare Krsna dasi comments:

>

>If I may add to Gaura Prema's nice collection of quotes responding to the

>>issue of >whether *we* are transcendental to varnasrama, here is my

>personal >favorite:

>

>====================================================

>Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1974 741021SB.MAY

>

>Actually, a Vaisnava is above this varnasrama-dharma. But we don't claim

>that we have become perfect Vaisnava. We are not so impudent.

 

That was a nice passage (that was taken out of context a little) where

Prabhupada defends the fact that has given sannyas to westerners:

 

"So in Sankara-sampradaya, strictly, unless one is born in brahmana family,

he's not offered sannyasa. He's not given sannyasa. Some of my godbrothers,

they criticize like that, that I am offering sannyasa to the mleccas,

yavanas. This is wrong idea. This is naraki-buddhi. Actually, a Vaisnava is

above this varnasrama-dharma. But we don't claim that we have become perfect

Vaisnava. We are not so impudent.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caitanya-caritamrta you'll find the Vaisnava is paramahamsa. Vaisnava has no

saffron cloth. Vaisnava is white cloth because Vaisnava is paramahamsa,

above. But we don't claim the position of Vaisnava. We want to remain

servant of Vaisnava."

 

 

I also like how Prabhupada addresses the simmilar questions from his leading

disciples in Mayapur in 1976 where he said, 'The process has begun

immediately, curing process. But we should not think that we have become

perfect. That is wrong.':

======================================================

Morning Walk Mayapur, February 4, 1976

 

Hrdayananda: So a devotee... It is said in Bhagavad-gita that a devotee is

above the modes of nature. It is said in Bhagavad-gita, sa gunan

samatityaitan. So when a devotee becomes very advanced, does that means that

he should not feel a particular, an inclination to do a particular work but

simply want to serve Krsna?

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise how they can give up sex life? Unless he is

liberated, how he can give up sex life?

 

Harikesa: That's something which puzzles all the materialists.

 

Prabhupada: Materialists. They are rascals, mudhas. Their only title is

"mudha," ass. Visvanatha Cakravarti has described the karmis as mudhas.

Karmis are lowest grade of mudhas. And above them the jnanis. And above

them, muktas, liberated. And above them, bhakta. And above all bhaktas,

krsna-bhakta. This is the graduation. So karmis, they are all mudhas.

 

Prabhupada: They are all in the material world, karmis. Karma-kanda,

ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlada Maharaja has described them. What is that

very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses."

Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyanam, ajita, "one who could not conquer the

senses," they are called karmis. Ajitendriyanam. So all these penances,

silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature, and so many things

are there. Prahlada Maharaja, in one word he says, "They are meant for

ajitendriyanam, one who could not conquer over the senses, for them." And

for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Krsna, he is sa gunan

samatityaitan. Not that a tiny devotee can claim that he has overcome the

influence of this world. No. This is called paramahamsa. Sa gunan

samatityaitan. Not that because you have taken to devotional..., you have

become immediately. The process has begun immediately, curing process.

But we should not think that we have become perfect. That is wrong.

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