Prabhupada vs. Manu: Not your sister!

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, COM: (Bhakta) Oleg Demtchenko (Nikolaev - RU) wrote:

 

> 129. But to a female who is the wife of another man, and not a

> blood-relation, he must say, 'Lady' (bhavati) or 'Beloved sister!'

 

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Hare Krsna dasi comments:

 

Once again, we will lose the benefit of Srila Prabhupada's advice if we

jump directly to Manu. At the time when Manu wrote this law, in polite

society perhaps there could be no thought of having sexual relations with

a person seen as "sister." Things have changed. And Srila Prabhupada has

adapted the rules to respond to our degraded standards. Prabhupada very

strongly objected to the idea of addressing women as "sister." And he

expressed this on many occasions.

 

As a spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada of course saw most of the women he

had to deal with as "daughters" not "mothers." But when we search the

folio carefully, we do find several instances where he refers to women

outside ISKCON (usually spiritual leaders from other Vaisnava movements)

as "Mother" but never "Sister." On one occasion, he even refers to his

own female disciples as his "little mothers." I have not found one example

where he refers to women (other than his own birth sisters) as "sister." In

one

quote he indicates that if he is a stranger, an unknown woman should see even

him as her son -- he does not say the woman should see him as her brother.

 

So we have a choice: Do we want to follow Srila Prabhupada, or do we

think that by going directly to Manu, we can achieve a level of "Vedic"

practice which is higher than what he demonstrated for us?

 

We are neophytes. It is dangerous for us to attempt to follow Manu

directly. We do not realize the subtle dangers that await us. Let Srila

Prabhupada

guide us to using the parts of Manu that are appropriate for our age, and in

doing so, let us look both to his words and to his practical examples as

"acarya" --

"one who teaches by example."

 

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Bhagavad-gita 4.14

Vrndavana, August 6, 1974

 

Brahmananda: In your lecture you quoted Canakya Pandita that a man must

see every woman other than his own wife as mother. How should a woman see

other men?

Prabhupada: As son. (laughter)

Brahmananda: That was my idea.

Prabhupada: Yes. If I see woman as mother, she must see me as son. That's

all. That is the system. The brahmacari, the sannyasi go to beg alms from

door to door. "Mother, give me some bhiksa, alms." And it is the duty of

the grhastha to treat brahmacari and sannyasi as their son. As they

maintain their children with food, shelter, cloth, similarly the

brahmacaris and sannyasis, they are dependent on the society. They should

be treated as the sons of the society. And they must supply their

necessities, bare necessities. A sannyasi, brahmacari, does not want more

than what they need. They should not collect more than what they need.

Bhiksa nirvahana. Not collect more and enjoy at others' cost. No. That is

not the business of sannyasi. They can collect so much as they need.

That's all.

Devotee: When you address a woman, do you...

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: When you address a woman do you use the word "Mataji"? Is that

the right, proper word for her?

Prabhupada: Mataji. Yes, very good. "Mother."

 

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Evening Darsana

January 7, 1977, Bombay

 

Guest (1): She's... That is the... Now, that is on one point I must tell

you one small thing, that...

Prabhupada: One lady... She is Subash Bose's niece, Lalita Bose. You see?

Because these family are very intimately..., Subash Bose's family and

Nehru family. So she calls Indira "Didi," means "elder sister."

 

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SB 4.27.30

The King of the Yavanas continued: Here is my brother Prajvara. I now

accept you as my sister. I shall employ both of you, as well as my

dangerous soldiers, to act imperceptibly within this world.

 

PURPORT

Kalakanya was sent by Narada Muni to Yavana-raja so that she might become

his wife, but instead of accepting her as his wife, Yavana-raja accepted

her as his sister. Those who do not follow the Vedic principles are

unrestricted as far as sex life is concerned. Consequently they sometimes

do not hesitate to have sex with their sisters. In this age of Kali there

are many instances of such incest. Although Yavana-raja accepted the

request of Narada Muni to show respect to him, he was nonetheless thinking

of illicit sex.

 

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Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.24

Mayapura, October 4, 1974

 

The woman is respected everywhere.

So in India, especially, women are still respected. Therefore Canakya

Pandita says, matrvat para-daresu: "Any woman who is not your wife, she

should be treated as your mother." This is moral instruction. Matrvat. At

the present moment, they have invented the word bahinaji, "sister." No. In

the Vedic culture, there is no such thing as "sister.Mother," that is

Vedic culture. Because mother is always respected, so any woman, if she is

called "Mother..."

 

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Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.23

Los Angeles, July 13, 1974

Then second mother, the guroh patni. Guru means teacher or spiritual

master. His wife, she's also... Actually, according to strict moral

instruction... Why strict? Ordinary. Any woman except his own wife is

mother. Any woman. It doesn't matter whether she is elderly or young. No.

That is the way. Still in India, any woman by unknown person, he can

address any woman "Mother." The first relationship is mother. Now they

have introduced "Sister,Bahinaji." No, that is not Vedic etiquette. No

bahinaji. Bahinaji means sister. Mother. Everyone should be addressed. We

should learn this. Except one's one wife, all women should be addressed as

"Mother." This is civilization. Then there will be no corrupt relation. If

you, from the very beginning, you establish your relationship with other

women as mother, then there is no question of other relationship.

 

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Bhagavad-gita 4.14

Vrndavana, August 6, 1974

Even in moral principle, as Canakya Pandita said, matrvat para-daresu.

"All women should be treated just like mother." Not like the present

society. Formerly, every woman should be addressed as "mother," Mataji.

And now they have invented "Bahinji." No. Woman should be addressed as

"mother." Matrvat para-daresu.

 

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Morning Walk

November 2, 1975, Nairobi

 

Devotee (9): Prabhupada, sometimes I've seen devotees say that they did

not like to chant in the temple room with the opposite...

Prabhupada: Then that is a rascal. He is not a devotee. He is a rascal,

when a devotee says... How you become devoted? If he does not like the

temple and he thinks to be happy outside, what is he? What kind of devotee

he is? He is not a devotee.

Devotee (9): What I meant to say is he does not want to chant with women

in the temple room. I have seen this before. He says, "I do not want to

chant in a room with women. I would rather be away from the women."

Prabhupada: That means he has got distinction between men and women. He is

not yet pandit. Panditah sama-darsinah. He is a fool. That's all. He is a

fool. So what is the value of his words? He is a fool.

Indian man (4): So he'll go first to make...

 

Prabhupada: He should always consider, "There is woman, that's all. She is

my mother." That's all. Matrvat para-daresu. Then what is the...? Suppose

you sit down with your mother and chant. What is the wrong? But he is not

so strong; then he should go to the forest. Why he should live in the

Nairobi city? On the street there are so many women. He will walk on the

street closing the eyes? (laughter) This is all rascaldom. They are

rascals. They are not devotees, simply rascals.

 

Indian man (4): Some of our devotee goes to the other temple like Swami

Narayana and they want to see the ladies there, so then they are taking

these instruction from them.

Prabhupada: Our devotees go to Swami Narayana?

Indian man (4): Yes, they go. Here our devotees, they went to Mombassa

for, after Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. When I was not there, all of them

went to Swami...

Prabhupada: These things should be stopped. They leave their own temple

and go to Swami Narayana temple? Stop.

Indian man (4): They likes their lunch. They goes for lunch. Yes, that's

true. All of them went without asking me. About five, six devotees,

immediately from here went to Swami Narayana.

Prabhupada: So this should be rectified.

 

Indian man (4): And their theory is that... I asked Vipramukhya Swami [not

from ISKCON] that "Why you have put this? Why you say to your disciple

that we should not see the face of the woman?" He said that, "We should

avoid." But I said, "Well, okay, when you are walking on the road

automatically you will see the ladies." He said, "We turn our face to one

side." I said, "First you have seen the woman. Then you are turning."

(laughter) "You will look further. You have not seen the women. You have

no sense, you know."

 

Prabhupada: These are all bogus things. One should train himself that

matravat para-daresu, all women, "my mother." Then it will be possible to

live... Therefore the etiquette is to address every woman, "Ma, ma,

mother." That is the etiquette... They should be addressed, "Mother." That

will train.

Indian man (4): In our Indian culture they don't call the name of the

mother never, children don't.

Prabhupada: No. "Mother," simply "mother," that's all. And if the woman

treats man as son, then it is all right. It is safe.

Indian woman: We got a very sweet sound. Everything we use "ji.Mataji",

"Pitaji,Brataji,Bahinji."

Prabhupada: Or... And the woman says, "Beta." ["son"] That's all right.

 

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Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.10

Los Angeles, January 7, 1974

That is the system still in India, any unknown woman who has no

introduction with you, (s)he is addressed "Mataji." Address her. ***She

may be just like daughter or granddaughter, but one would address, as a

respect to the woman, as "Mother, Mataji."*** This is Indian system. Now

some rascals have introduced "Bhaginiji, sister." But that is not

shastric. In the sastra, all the woman, except one's wife, should be

addressed as "Mother."

 

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Letter to: Yamuna, Malati, Janaki

Los Angeles

20 February, 1969

 

My Dear little mothers, Yamuna, Malati, Janaki,

Please accept my blessings. I lost my mother when I was only 14 years old.

So I didn't get much of my mother's affection in my childhood. But in my

old age, Krishna has given me so many young mothers to take care of me.

Another mother Govinda Dasi is there in Hawaii. She is always asking me to

go there. So I will go there within this month. But my one appeal is to my

fathers and mothers

[TEXT MISSING]

 

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Letter to: Yamuna

Hawaii

13 March, 1969

69-03-13

 

....Another news is that Mother Syama dasi came to L.A. with some of her

Gujarati devotees. She appeared to be nice Vaisnavi. And she wants to work

in cooperation with me. I have told her that I have no objection but how

we shall cooperate, that is to be formulated when we meet next. In the

meantime, she has said that she has collected some money from the Indian

community in London, perhaps 10,000 pounds, and she is anxious to start a

temple there. So you can think over this matter, how we can cooperate with

her.

 

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Letter to: Bapi

Los Angeles

15 February, 1970

 

You will be glad to learn that our Sankirtana Movement in the Western

world is going on very successfully. Your fathers Spiritual Teacher,

Mother Anandamayee, is very much fond of Sankirtana. So I wish that your

father may send us mrdanga (Khol) and karatalas for this great Sankirtana

Yajna. Mother Anandamayee has got many rich followers, if some of them

send us this khol and karatalas for our different centers all over the

world--Europe, American, Canada, Japan, Australia then it will be a great

cooperation.

 

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Letter to: Caru

Mayapur

February 28, 1977

Berkeley

Dear Caru,

Please accept my blessings. I have received your letter of January 24, and

examined the contents.

Regarding your standing in the book distribution as number three in the

world, I am very pleased that you have worked so hard to help me in

carrying out the order of my Guru Maharaja. Be convinced that you are

doing the highest service for your fellow countrymen by distributing books

of Krsna Consciousness. Actually in the west there is now no culture, and

no brain even for what is the purpose of life. American civilization is

finished, except that it can be saved if it takes to Krsna

Consciousness....I have accepted Mother Debbie for first initiation and

her spiritual name is Divyadrsti dasi.

 

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I hope these statements from Srila Prabhupada will remind us that his

standard was that men should regard all women except their wives as

"mother" not as "sister" - regardless of what we may find in Manu Samhita.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi