Guest guest Posted January 4, 1999 Report Share Posted January 4, 1999 On 03 Jan 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote: > The very, very important point that is almost impossible for us to grasp > is that Srila Prabhupada is talking about this taking place in the > varnasrama society that he envisions, which is a subsistence-oriented > society, not a market-oriented society. > > This kind of tax is not at all possible in our current market-oriented > society. Say a farmer has a 400 acre grain farm. If he had to give all > the production of 100 acres as taxes, he would have to go out of business. > How would he pay the shipping on his grain? How would he pay for seeds > and fertilizers? How would he make his mortgage payments, or rent > payments on the land? How would he pay his insurance? How would he pay > for expensive planting and harvesting equipment? How would he pay his > fuel bill? An important consideration in all of this is what does the Ksatriya GIVE BACK to the citizens in return for levying taxes, fines, tolls, etc. I don't think we abandon technology - we engage it - and gradually transition to more practical means. It shouldn't stop us from doing things right now. A ksatriya can take 25% of one vendors goods or money (if he is involved in banking, etc.) and redistribute services/products in an equitable manner to maintain/protect all citizens. It is similar to bartering. In a city close to Syracuse, Ithaca, where Cornell University is, they have instituted a very successful "currency" called Ithaca Dollars. Doctors, dentists, insurers, grocers, farmers, retailers, all sorts of people give their "produce" for equal trade for other needs. This can be nicely administrated by a leader. The only thing missing is leadership and a concerted effort. Either the current "leaders" of ISKCON will have to finally grasp the basic, simple and fundamental need for recognition of varnasrama-dharma/Vedic Culture within this society of aspiring devotees or they will have to be replaced by qualified leaders who will, or this paradigm shift will NEVER take place in ISKCON. It may happen elsewhere where leadership-oriented people have grasped this elementary strategy and realize it is the FIRST order of business - varna first, asrama later. ISKCON's "leaders" are that in name only. Most of them are sannyasis who are supposed to be giving up all cares about society and we have them in charge of society! Their "followers" are suffering everyday from their stubborn resolve to plod along as they have for the last 24 years, 9 months and 21 days and ignore the most basic needs of those innocent and sincere followers. Leaders make the age, the age does not make the leaders. In the interests of the greater Krsna conscious society this conference should be lobbying, actively, the present "leaders" of ISKCON to take up this task immediately. Individuals may implement VAD within their own personal lives as the result of this valuable teaching tool conference but to think that ISKCON is going to change by our tiny conference membership is a bit impractical. We become a mutual admiration society with little or no practical implementation. Let's organize a mass email/snail mail campaign to the GBC and all temples to recognize VAD and start teaching it in every center, to every bhakta (that's all of us), everyday. Start by reading out loud everyday Srila Prabhupada's 4 day morning walk conversations in Vrindavana of 1974, and his 1977 Valentine's day massacre/VAD conversations with Hari Sauri et al. Hare Krsna devi's VAD book should be coming out soon - add it to the list. We'll see action amongst the "voting" population of bhaktas, I guarantee it. Jd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 > > > > An important consideration in all of this is what does the Ksatriya GIVE BACK > to the citizens in return for levying taxes, fines, tolls, etc. One thing is that in contemporary society they would be paying the property tax out of that 25% and it also probably includes a house to live in. If it did include a house, then 25% isn't too bad a bargain. > I don't think > we abandon technology - we engage it - and gradually transition to more > practical means. It shouldn't stop us from doing things right now. A ksatriya > can take 25% of one vendors goods or money (if he is involved in banking, > etc.) and redistribute services/products in an equitable manner to > maintain/protect all citizens. I didn't save the quote, but I recall it said 1/20 of the profit from dealings with gold, which would be like money in today's society. That is more like 5% for capital intensive businesses . > > > It is similar to bartering. In a city close to Syracuse, Ithaca, where Cornell > University is, they have instituted a very successful "currency" called Ithaca > Dollars. Doctors, dentists, insurers, grocers, farmers, retailers, all sorts > of people give their "produce" for equal trade for other needs. This can be > nicely administrated by a leader. > > The only thing missing is leadership and a concerted effort. Alternative currencies do have another require - that those participating are producing goods and services that can be used by other participants. Bhaktipada gave the instruction to set up such a system inNV. Of course, he never personally put any energy into it himself, he would just occasionally harrass the accounting department about why it wasn't done. On their behalf, I pointed out to him that the problem was that with the majority of devotees in preaching programs and planning department, what good would it be to accept NV dollars from them? Although they consumed inputs, they didn't really produce anything that was tangibly useful. For instance , they were over 2 dozen Deities that all got fresh vase flowers daily and fresh garlands twice daily. That took a lot of energy to produce and string the flowers, but if I had amassed a lot of NV currency, what did they have to exchange? A few gardeners and woodchoppers would have been quite wealthy in NV currency, but would have had to have had jobs on the side in order to get the necessities. When you actually got down to what was going on in NV, little of the energy was going into necessities, so such a program wouldn't have worked. Of course, when I would point this out to Bhaktipada he would just get mad at me and say if I just went to mangala arotika my vision wouldn't be so materilally contaminated. > In the interests of the greater Krsna conscious society this conference should > be lobbying, actively, the present "leaders" of ISKCON to take up this task > immediately. Individuals may implement VAD within their own personal lives as > the result of this valuable teaching tool conference but to think that ISKCON > is going to change by our tiny conference membership is a bit impractical. We > become a mutual admiration society with little or no practical implementation. Gee Janesh, does that mean you admire me? Well, right back at'cha. Seriously though, this is true. Something practical has to come from the leaders. When land is held by Trusts, then the administrators of those trusts can offer land to devotees on the 25% plan. THis will enable young idealists to get out on the land and will generate income for the trusts. Now it is more like you spend your youthful energies earning the money to enable you to get out on the land and by the time you are there, you are getting past that youthful fervor and really don't do as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 > > > > An important consideration in all of this is what does the Ksatriya GIVE BACK > to the citizens in return for levying taxes, fines, tolls, etc. One thing is that in contemporary society they would be paying the property tax out of that 25% and it also probably includes a house to live in. If it did include a house, then 25% isn't too bad a bargain. > I don't think > we abandon technology - we engage it - and gradually transition to more > practical means. It shouldn't stop us from doing things right now. A ksatriya > can take 25% of one vendors goods or money (if he is involved in banking, > etc.) and redistribute services/products in an equitable manner to > maintain/protect all citizens. I didn't save the quote, but I recall it said 1/20 of the profit from dealings with gold, which would be like money in today's society. That is more like 5% for capital intensive businesses . > > > It is similar to bartering. In a city close to Syracuse, Ithaca, where Cornell > University is, they have instituted a very successful "currency" called Ithaca > Dollars. Doctors, dentists, insurers, grocers, farmers, retailers, all sorts > of people give their "produce" for equal trade for other needs. This can be > nicely administrated by a leader. > > The only thing missing is leadership and a concerted effort. Alternative currencies do have another require - that those participating are producing goods and services that can be used by other participants. Bhaktipada gave the instruction to set up such a system inNV. Of course, he never personally put any energy into it himself, he would just occasionally harrass the accounting department about why it wasn't done. On their behalf, I pointed out to him that the problem was that with the majority of devotees in preaching programs and planning department, what good would it be to accept NV dollars from them? Although they consumed inputs, they didn't really produce anything that was tangibly useful. For instance , they were over 2 dozen Deities that all got fresh vase flowers daily and fresh garlands twice daily. That took a lot of energy to produce and string the flowers, but if I had amassed a lot of NV currency, what did they have to exchange? A few gardeners and woodchoppers would have been quite wealthy in NV currency, but would have had to have had jobs on the side in order to get the necessities. When you actually got down to what was going on in NV, little of the energy was going into necessities, so such a program wouldn't have worked. Of course, when I would point this out to Bhaktipada he would just get mad at me and say if I just went to mangala arotika my vision wouldn't be so materilally contaminated. > In the interests of the greater Krsna conscious society this conference should > be lobbying, actively, the present "leaders" of ISKCON to take up this task > immediately. Individuals may implement VAD within their own personal lives as > the result of this valuable teaching tool conference but to think that ISKCON > is going to change by our tiny conference membership is a bit impractical. We > become a mutual admiration society with little or no practical implementation. Gee Janesh, does that mean you admire me? Well, right back at'cha. Seriously though, this is true. Something practical has to come from the leaders. When land is held by Trusts, then the administrators of those trusts can offer land to devotees on the 25% plan. THis will enable young idealists to get out on the land and will generate income for the trusts. Now it is more like you spend your youthful energies earning the money to enable you to get out on the land and by the time you are there, you are getting past that youthful fervor and really don't do as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.