vad cult

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees,

 

I apologize for my absence from recent dialogues. My computer

crashed and I'm in a que to use others until mine can be repaired. Those of

you who have lived in India know what that means.

 

I would like to echo Janesvara Prabhu's reaction to Hari Sauri's

posting. The proposed solutions by various extreme camps which have evolved

in response to recent events are generally either stop-gap measures or not

profound enough to deal with the problems we are all facing in trying to

become Krsna conscious in the pernicious atmosphere in which we are all

forced to live. In general, in my humble opinion, the proposals highlight

the problems, rather than the solutions.

One possible source of misunderstanding of the importance of the

evolution of Srila Prabhupada's society into the VAD, is the misconception

that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected VAD in his conversation with Ramananda

Roy. True, He said it was external and asked Ramananda to go further, but

just a few verses later, Lord Caitanya accepted the path of staying where

one is at present and hearing krsna-katha, without speculation or fruitive

expectations, from a self-realized soul. That conclusion implies a

recommendation that we externally stay within a varnasrama organized society

because that was the form the society was in at the time of the discussion.

The need for reform in our society has become so obvious that

various groups of devotees from different sections of our society are

beginning to come to consensus, even independently of one another. This is

a clear indication that Srila Prabhupada is inspiring the devotees to come

up with more profound solutions. There is no need, then, to become overly

depressed, angry or disappointed, even in the face of the recent events

surrounding Harikesa.

My only doubt is that our legislation and enforcement of the needed

reforms may cause sections of devotees to become alienated in a way that the

Vaisnava etiquettes described in the sastras will be impossible to follow.

Such an atmosphere, in which its senior members are most suspect, rather

than least suspect, may become even more callous to the needs of our

society's citizens than it already is.

The varnasrama approach, on the other hand, maintains the sanctity

of the various varnas and ashrams by placing people properly according to

their age, nature, level of advancement, etc. I fear that unless we take

this approach, we will turn into a police state in which suspicions will not

be allayed, but rather increased, making it impossible for the leaders or

the followers to behave properly according to sastra.

 

ys

Kesava Bharati das

 

 

 

 

 

 

> I woke up this morning with a plan to comment on Nikhilananda Prabhu's

> "vad cult" letter. It probably would have been in my "bull in a china

> shop" manner, as Mother Kusha would aptly describe it. Fortunately, I have

> been spared that engagement because of a proper varnasrama-dharma practice

> - a brahmana has taken the responsibility to speak intelligently and

> compassionately in support of the Lord's divine social system for the true

> benefit of all people.

>

> Thank you Hari Sauri Prabhu. You did it with grace and far better than I

> would have. I couldn't be more inspired and encouraged for our future with

> brahmanas like your good self to guide us.

>

>

> The following was especially profound:

>

> >VAD means constant encouragement; people are positively helped to make

> >advancement from whatever level they are on, incrementally improving to

> >higher and higher levels. There is no "fall down," no sense of guilt, no

> >sense of personal failure, no condemnation from one's peers. Only

> >encouragement.

>

>

> Now this is a new and dynamic concept for ISKCON to aspire to. It makes my

> hair stand on end!

>

> I remain a solid member of the VAD camp.

>

> All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

>

> Hare Krsna.

> Your fallen servant,

> Janesvara dasa

[Guest guest]

>To talk about VAD and use it as intellectual cover is easy. To

>implement it will not be so easy. It seems to me that Harikesh had a

>natural tendency to be a king. As there was no accepted way for him to

>do so, he had to act as a sannyasi to get the prestige and influence he

>was destined to have, but as that is a rasa bhasa, now it has taken an

>unfortunate turn. Had it been acceptable to be a leader in ISKCON and

>not be a sannyasi, it may have taken a more natural course.

 

Very interesting observation.

 

"Normal persons" might say that we should just take up our occupation,

like them, chant Hare Krishna and be happy. But many occupational

duties are not existing, or not possible to take up, in the current frame.

Such persons are thus destined to go through their whole life beeing

misplaced and unhappy. If you are a persons who is somewhat properly

situated, you might not see this, or maybe not even care for that there

are persons in this world that are not properly situated.

 

The beauty of varnasrama is that their is proper situation for everyone.

We all come to earth with different propensities, to be situated in the

varnasrama society. All this arranged by Krishna. But if we by human

disobedience of Krsna's instructions don't implement varnasrama,

a big part of society will be misplaced, and unhappy, and will

experience a lot of misery. This even if you are destined to be a

king.

[Guest guest]

>The Art Of Teaching pg. 157:

>S.P.- Not everybody. Why are you misunderstanding? Varnasrama, not

>everybody brahmana.

>Hari Sauri: No, but in our society practically everyone is being raised to

>that platform.

>S.P.-Everybody is being raised, but they are falling down.

>Hari Sauri: So then we make it more difficult to get brahminical

>initiation. After four or five years.

>S.P.- Not necessarily. You remain as ksatriya . . . . . even if he remains

>a sudra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee . .

>. . . He will get the perfection.

 

This is clear indication that SP didn't want the system of VAD to be the

system of ISKCON initiation and management. Rather something different from

ISKCON system of management that he stated in his will. Even Prabhupada may

indicated that he wanted this system to be implemented 'in each center'

(Vrindaban, March 12, 1974) but he didn't do it, nor he put this in the

system of initiation that he personally set up and modified in 1977, nor he

put it any legal document of ISKCON. Prabhupada may say that managers should

be ksatriyas while definitely implying the implementation of it in the

society in large since he set the GBC and confirmed the GBC to remain his

system of management (in his will) who where almost all tyagis. Tyagis

cannot be ksatriyas. It was not a 'mistake', he wanted same system as Srila

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati asked for.

 

I belive that yes SP wanted to set VAD communities, and no he didn't want to

change rules and regulations and system of ISKCON. You may have different

opinion, but I will not take it as Prabhupadas opinion for obvious reasons

stated above. Other quotes are relevant but hardly prove the opposite.

[Guest guest]

>Often new devotees want to feel like they belong, but without a spiritual

>name feel kind of left out (especialy if they have not found a guru after

>several years). I feel that in order for such devotees to feel part of the

>community, the devotees could give them a temporary 'spiritual nickname'

>or even let them choose one. This would take the pressure off them feeling

>like they have to take immediate initiation.

>

>As has been suggested in this conference we need to realisticaly evaluate

>the worship offered to contemporary gurus, and certainly new devotees

>should know fully what they are getting themselves into. I think that this

>kind of honesty and openness will be thouroughly appreciated by everyone.

>

>Why is it that we insist that devotees should be initiated within a

>certain period? What is the hurry?

 

Nice points Prabhu. You ask what is the hurry? Well maybe a few false

reasons (cooks needed, number of disicples, even guru daksina or position of

authority in ISKCON) ans true ones (also desire to be feel that you are

going back to Godhead, connected with the spiritual master and Srila

Prabhupada and parampara, to chant better etc). There is also a political

pressure that comes from some devotees leaving for Gaudia math or Rtvic

camps or Satya narayanas etc. Difficult situation to protect both gurus from

falldown and disciples from sentimental acceptance of the guru something

should be done, of course it will not solve all the problems.

 

Your servant,

 

Caitanya candrodaya dasa

 

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