Varnashrama as a sudden upheaval

[Guest guest]

> I know that you are very pessimistic about varnasrama-dharma Prabhu

 

Sorry Prabhu, I am definitely not pessimistic about Varnasrama dharma

but I like to be realistic about ourselves. yr svt ND

 

> I am sorry if someone has burned you or ill-treated you in such a way to

> make you so mean-hearted and sarcastic about the subject.

 

So far no one has ill treated me that I can remember or burned me,

at least not related to that topic.

I feel sorry that you believe like this. I never meant to be sarcastic

about VAD. I - am -sometimes sarcastic about new age prophecies and

superstitions and feel that I am moving well in the line of the way Srila

Prabhupada dealt with the esoteric and new age prophets by rejecting and

exposing them. I have also seen the havoc caused to other devotees by hype

and excitement and unrealistic ways of dealing with serious social

issues. I have only expressed my astonishment about the last twenty texts

or so, which occupied lot of space and expressed mainly new age esoteric

guessing instead of serious VAd discussion or actual social concerns.

 

It astonished me even more considering the fact that the same persons

deny having anything in mind with new age and claim to be realistic

and "sober" in their approach. Very strange indeed, at least

for a simple, unesoteric and conditioned mind like mine.

 

Sorry if I hurt you by disagreeing with you and not sharing

excitement about the coming of a doomsday, polar shift, major flood etc.

Rather I would like to wake you up to the reality before you

run into some real trouble in this three dimensional world.

I may tell you only what you like to hear but as a friedn I think

I owe it to you to tell you my factual opinion.

 

It is difficult for me to react with seriousness when I hear for the

500th time in the last 25 years that the earth will be destroyed next

year and we will emerge miraculously as some sort of new age VAD avataras.

Nor do I see what such new age stuff has to do with the topic of

varnasrama dharma as Srila Prabhupada taught it.

 

There is a lot of cruelty and eye washing in the new age way of

thinking because it is based on nothing but illusion.

If warning from these dangers makes others call me a bad and mean hearted

person as you have done I am ready to tolerate it, for the sake of duty.

 

> I have one question for you: In your estimation we are not "doing"

> varnasrama-dharma now in ISKCON

 

Wrong, in some places like Slovenia we are well on the way to a varnasrama

soiety, very successfully, although may be that is not the concept

of varnasrama which you have so vigorously preached.

Nevertheless the Slovenian concept has been very successful, with the

result that the devotees get firmly established in the society and

accepted by the leading forces of the society. I say this honestly because

I have just spent about ten months over there trying to help.

 

>and you don't seem to think we can do it

> right, so what is the socio-economical system which you advocate other

> than varnasrama-dharma?

 

I believe that we can do it right and practice KC within the varnasrama

area but not in the way it has been suggested by you.

 

To answer your question, before we can establish any socio economic

system there must obviously be

1.) a society and 2.) an economy, or else it is just day dreaming.

 

1.)A society again consists of its members and they should first be

properly trained in rational and ethical spiritual values and receive

a solid and proper material and spiritual education.

If we have not even yet properly been able to control problems like

child abuse etc no social system in the whole universe will make

even for our deficiency. Rather we will multiply and expand our

deficiencies and seriously collide with the rest of the world.

 

In Slovenia devotees have held continous training sessions on all aspects

of social communication and spiritual human ethics for the last 7 years

or more with the result that an actual society is organically

growing. The congregation is very well trained and the devotees there

are in my opinion among the best well behaved and reasonable ones in the

whole world. They are very dedicated and they create a whole new society

based on the temple s congregations in the capital and several other towns

in the country. For this they do not need to introduce formal varna

designations at this time but whenever practical. In my opinion the

question of varna qualities etc comes only up in job related issues. For

this one first has to have a job. It is that simple and not at all a

subject for endless general theorizing and writing mystical essays. The

training is first class and the priority is on development of basic

Vaishnava qualities. The Vaishnava qualities as taught by Srila

Prabhupada are most practical and will benefit all the varnas and asramas.

A lot of focus is given to improvement of jappa etc.

The training and work shop sessions will have to be continously improved

by practical experiences.

 

No one expects paradise on earth in Slovenia. It is reasonable not to

create such over expectations or to underestimate the practical problems

of devotees in this age of kali, in any situation of life.

 

2.)An -economy- requires means of income and capital. That is also not

there often among devotees around the world. Speculations about a

mysterious world world destruction and other new age phantasies will not

help to generate this economical basis. Although such speculations are

tools for maipulation and creating radical cults. For creating an

economical basis there should be first formation of practical and down to

earth small work groups of devotees who want to work and generate income

and those who already are successful in generating income and very

experienced or have received a very solid education in the financial and

business field. Devotees who want to create a scource of income should get

much more personal counsel and attention by actual experts. The business

ideas I have seen propmoted in some zones by devotees, even GBCs were

to a great part simply ridiculous and actually useless long term.

There was no solid knowledge or experience behind it.

 

We have to create a whole solid culture in this regard. Srila Prabhupada

was very realistic and never under estimated the need of money for

carrying on a world wide movement. But he also emphsized that even money

is given when Krishna is pleased through the devotee s behaving in a

disciplined and honest, virtous manner. I cannot stand seeing people

who hardly ever raised any substantial capital in this life time speak

wisely about economy etc. They will dream foever or maybe live at the

cost of others their whole lives. Cooperation and self sufficiency

go very well together. Farms and villages are of course also

good places to build communities but onöly if devotes can generate

enough income ther and know what they are doing. We already have more

than enough farm properties etc which simply lie vacant. So that is

not the point to start with. The above concepts and generating a VAd

culture is not dependent on buying mor land. a complete illusion.

 

There are many more practical elements that can be introduced regardless

of land etc. Devotees who become "Bhaktas" should be encouraged to finish

their material education while they are bhaktas and there are also

other importat things in this onnection. In Slovenia these principles

have been followed for at leat the last 5 years and the results

are very encouraging. The students who are practicing devotees also

have their own rented houses and live together in groups of 5 to ten.

For this proper awareness of how to communicate and live together

is important. They learn team work and tolerance duringb their student

time. The temple also helps to organize group journeys for the

students, we found that such group experiences of no stress but simply

being together for a day or two on the ocean side or going on a mountain

walk can really help much to make the group feel like a unit and we

hope that they feel connected like that for their whole life, even when

they have their own homes and families. Oh yes, the grihastas who work

also meet regularly in their homes. Brahminical, senior devotees act as

mentors and councellors for the others. each new congregational member

has a personal mentor after some time, an experienced devotee

who is always there for them whenever they need advice or a talk.

all this already works very well, without too much emphasis on labels.

 

To me it seems like VAd means building something like a network

of large families, like previously people used to live in the same village

as an extended family. All this is of course not dependent on an existing

village or place but can be cultivated everywhere. It is more a matter

of personal attention and training. if you want to start VAd, just

turn off your PC, step outside and start listening to the concerns

and problems of other devotes, with a view to help but even more to learn.

You may give careful advice based on varna and vaishnava character

qualities and virtues like trustworthyness, honesty etc.

Then the mode of goodness wil increase, problems will be less

and the purpose of VAd is served for the benefit of advancing God

consciousness.

 

In order to learn we have to acknowledge that we do not know everything

or for that matter hardly anything at all. For me meeting a new person

or devotee is every time a great learning experience.

 

All this cannot just be done in a few years and by legislation but it has

to grow organically and within the respective countries environment

and culture. We cannot just demand that everyone now take up a Hindu

caste system. In other words we cannot just claim to come up with all

the perfect solutions from the beginning and then implement it

"by lobbying etc " That is not realistic. We may have to be somewaht

flexible and learn through experience. There is no replacement for that

process just like one cannot make a tree grow in one day.

 

Lobbying by definition is something that is done by those who have power

and huge capital and play an important role in the society not by people

who have nothing but wild ideas. First we have to earn while we learn

and take a somewhat humble and realistic position.

Small is beautiful. In like needle, out like a plow. "Utility

is the principle " All good things in life take a while.

"Purity is the essence." Hare Krishna !