Don't support single mothers

[Guest guest]

COM: Mahanidhi (das) HKS (Lund - S) wrote:

 

<<You are a hopeless misogynist, Jivan Mukta, that gets the

 

> foam on his mouth when the time to attack women by the worst

> names and smash them with any "code" that you might come

> accross, comes. But when it comes to the idea of the protection

> and the support, then you brush it all off your oily skin by simply

> misusing Srila Prabhupada. Sooner you are off the air, that more

> sane these forums will become again.

>

> ys mnd

 

It is actually Krsna's mercy that devotees like Jivan Mukta prabhu are on COM,

as unpleasant as their attitude may seem. It is very important for us to have

a

chance to see how different aspects of Srila Prabhupada's instructions, and

especially, different aspects of the Vedas can be perverted for the use of

oppressing people rather than inspiring peopler and drawing more and more souls

to Krsna consciousness.

 

He may appear hard-hearted, but actually he is doing Prabhupada's movement a

great service by showing us the dangers we have to safe-guard against.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

[Guest guest]

On 14 Dec 1998, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

 

> It is actually Krsna's mercy that devotees like Jivan Mukta prabhu are on

COM,

> as unpleasant as their attitude may seem.

 

> He may appear hard-hearted, but actually he is doing Prabhupada's movement a

> great service by showing us the dangers we have to safe-guard against.

 

 

 

Yeah, but I would rather smack him up side the head if I ever meet him face to

face.

 

 

 

jd

[Guest guest]

On 14 Dec 1998, Janesvara Dasa wrote:

 

 

> Yeah, but I would rather smack him up side the head if I ever meet him face

to

> face.

 

 

Thank you for confirming your true nature to us all.

[Guest guest]

>You are a hopeless misogynist, Jivan Mukta, that gets the

>foam on his mouth when the time to attack women by the worst

>names and smash them with any "code" that you might come

>accross, comes. But when it comes to the idea of the protection

>and the support, then you brush it all off your oily skin by simply

>misusing Srila Prabhupada. Sooner you are off the air, that more

>sane these forums will become again.

 

I am all for protecting women. I just don't agree that you give them

protection by encouraging them to become prostitutes.

 

"She is not leader, she is a prostitute. Woman given freedom means prostitute."

(Room Conversation April 5, 1977, Bombay)

 

Ys. JMd

 

BTW even the karmi feminist reporters understood that Prabhupada said women

do not fit into the four varna divisions. Hopefully one day soon, some of

his disciples will also understand what he is saying. Another thing, what

did Prabhupada call an unmarried woman?..

 

Morning Walk, July 10, 1975, Chicago

 

Jayatirtha (reading a news item written by a female reporter): " 'Such

MEN,' " capital M-E-N again, "he said, 'are first-class citizens and should

be advisors to the world. Second and third-class MEN have not found God and

should be administrators and workers.' " Not exactly right. "He spoke

thirty minutes and never mentioned women. I asked how women fit into his

system. 'Women,' he said, 'is not equal in intelligence to man. Man's brain

weighs sixty-four ounces; women's weighs thirty-six ounces. It is just a

fact.' He continued, 'Women are meant to assist men. That is all.' He said

women do not figure in his class system except as daughters or wives. 'An

unmarried woman presumably is classless. Is that,' asked a male reporter..."

Prabhupada: (chuckles) That is fact. She is prostitute, that's all. If you

classify, then she is prostitute. (laughter) That's all. There is no other

way.

[Guest guest]

>

> I am all for protecting women. I just don't agree that you give them

> protection by encouraging them to become prostitutes.

>

>

 

 

But calling devotees prostitutes is okee dokee. If you encourage someone to

become dependent on Krsna, all protection becomes available.

[Guest guest]

On 14 Dec 1998, Bhuta-bhavana Dasa wrote:

 

> On 14 Dec 1998, Janesvara Dasa wrote:

> > Yeah, but I would rather smack him up side the head if I ever meet him

face

> to

> > face.

>

 

> Thank you for confirming your true nature to us all.

 

 

I don't think it was big secret actually. I don't pretend to be something I'm

not. I don't always react to such speech from people like Jivan Mukta with the

greatest of grace and I apologize for that but it IS the way I feel and I

would fulfill on it. I've done the same to other "devotees" in the past when

they threatened women or children. I do not practice non-violence in this

regard. Quite the contrary.

[Guest guest]

Jivan Mukta:

 

>

> I am all for protecting women. I just don't agree that you give them

> protection by encouraging them to become prostitutes.

>

> "She is not leader, she is a prostitute. Woman given freedom means

> prostitute." (Room Conversation April 5, 1977, Bombay)

>

 

 

Vipramukya Swami once explained this tactic of "sinking

platforms" in regard to JMD: Sooner the argument of JMD

turnes to be blowen away, he is already jumping on

another platform, and on another, and on another...

thus appearing to be always "above".

 

The sinking platform that he has just now jumped from was

his attribution to Srila Prabhupda the disinterest for ISKCON's

support (protect) of single mothers. The platform has sunk, and

he's now on another one -- "leader-a-prostitute" platform,

keeping the same key word "protection" as the connection

between the platforms..

 

Anyway. We are on an another platform now...

 

What does ISKCON women getting education, ISKCON women giving

classes, ISKCON women taking part in discussions and decision

making system in ISKCON ahs to do with the exemple of woman

being leader, is another thing (another platform).

 

As far as "icouraging them to become prostitutes", as you

framed it, well, it is not Mahanidhi das, nor IWR, XYZ,

ABC, Basu Ghosh, but PRABHUPAD that incourages "them"

to become the **spiritual leaders** in ISKCON (you have

seen hunderds of times the references). This society,

ISCKON is supposedly spiritual society with spiritual

leaders. Or is it not?

 

 

>

> BTW even the karmi feminist reporters understood that Prabhupada said

> women do not fit into the four varna divisions. Hopefully one day soon,

> some of his disciples will also understand what he is saying. Another

> thing, what did Prabhupada call an unmarried woman?..

> [...]

> wives. 'An unmarried woman presumably is classless. Is that,' asked a male

> reporter..." Prabhupada: (chuckles) That is fact. She is prostitute,

> that's all. If you classify, then she is prostitute. (laughter) That's

> all. There is no other way.

 

Yes, Jivan Mukta das, we can also simply chuckle along with

Srila Prabhupada seeing again and again the same pattern

of your giving precideence to Srila Prabhupada's comments on

some feminsit reporters' provocations, when faced to Srila

Prabhupada's direct instructions to his disciplese. And to what

Srila Prabhupada did himself. He recognized the unmarried girls

as brahminical persons when giving them the brahmin initiation

and engaging them in the brahmana occupational duties (pujaris,

Deities coocs, editors, preachers, book distributors.. ).

Actually, whether they were unmarried or married, it did not

play any role.

 

 

And there is the substencial differnece in the approach to

women's varna in the sense of the traditional social customs,

and in the sense of the factual qualities of a person, be it

men or women or anything. Krsna has explained in the BG that

**everybody** is subjected to the three mods of material

nature, that the particular set of the qualities are born

from the contact with the ceartain combination of the these

modes, and that these qualities determines one's way of

action. Be it a man or a woman.

 

Srila Prabhupada did recognize this. Jivan Mukta das not.

The social customs to Prabhupada were of the inferior

importance (in the circumsatnces when there is no proper

set up for their practice). For Jivan Mukta not. He claimes

that women are without varna all together. No surprise,

since women got no chance to exists as **persons** in

Jivan Mukta's "perfect vedic" society. They are merely

pieces of furniture to be used for men's pleasure

and satisfaction. And as the object for men's letting

out their frustration on somebody, the frustration of own

impotence to do something remarkable and great out from both

their own lives and the society (that they are not responsible

for if anything wrong goes on - women are there to be blamed

and beaten on their head for it).

 

 

"The perfect society" of Jivan Mukta das. Line up behind,

ladies and gentlemen.

 

 

 

ys mnd

[Guest guest]

> On 14 Dec 1998, Bhuta-bhavana Dasa wrote:

>

> > On 14 Dec 1998, Janesvara Dasa wrote:

> > > Yeah, but I would rather smack him up side the head if I ever meet him

> face

> > to

> > > face.

> >

>

> > Thank you for confirming your true nature to us all.

>

>

> I don't think it was big secret actually. I don't pretend to be something

> I'm not. I don't always react to such speech from people like Jivan Mukta

> with the greatest of grace and I apologize for that but it IS the way I

> feel and I would fulfill on it. I've done the same to other "devotees" in

> the past when they threatened women or children. I do not practice

> non-violence in this regard. Quite the contrary.

 

You are supposed to be a disciple of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. I am

deeply disappointed that you bear such malice to other devotee to such an

extent. I hope you don't find yourself in big brawl with Jivan Mukta (he may

be even stronger than you), if you do, you will have a good explanation to

the legal authourities in America telling them we are just two bunch of Hare

Krishnas who hate each others guts. What a nice preaching that will be to

the public. I think we expect more from a senior devotee.