Guest guest Posted January 19, 1999 Report Share Posted January 19, 1999 On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote: > [Text 2026747 from COM] > > More of a crisis than Y2K in agriculture is the lack of young farmers. My one > brother is 47 and the other is 41, and the younger one and a few others > between him and the 47 year old are the youngest farmers still working. There > are virtually none younger than that. This is in Walsh county North Dakota, > which in the 70s when I was still there was the second largest tonnage potato > producing county in the US, behind only Aroostook county , Maine. > > Incidentally, this info is quite up to date as I did call him to commiserate > about the Vikings loss in the NFC conference championship :-( > The dying out of farmers is a stupendous problem. One reason why I really dislike the focus on Vedic scriptures was it generally means not listening to Prabhupada. The emphasis gets to be on ritual and social segregation. Somehow, Srila Prabhupada was able to extract something different from the Vedas and his emphasis is more on including people and training people. Prabhupada wanted us to train farmers (see Varnasrama Walks March 1974) and he wanted us to actually give land to farmers -- for self-sufficient (not market-oriented) land. I highly doubt that the Vedics will ever put together a program to train farmers in cow protection and how to take care of the land, because they are not going to see that in their scriptures -- you have to go to Prabhupada for that. -- Anyway, not to get to partisan. The question of the dying out of farmers is a very important one. Where did I read that most farmers are in their 60s right now. Set that against all the problems they might be facing next year, and you have got a recipe for instant widespread farmer retirement. ================ What I have been wanting to do for a year or more is to type up some articles from the *Stockman Grass Farmer* which addressed this issue very well: "Allan's Observations" [Allan Nation, the editor] "The Energy Lifecycle of Men" *Stockman Grass Farmer, Feb & March 1996 (Vol 53, n 2,3) Here is an excerpt: ================================================= According to the 1992 USDA Census of Agriculture, 86% of America's farms and ranches are owned by families or individuals and family-held corporations own another 3%. Only 1% are true corporations and 10% are partnerships. How many of the family owned farms and ranches are structured to be freestanding is not known but probably very few. A largely uncommented phenomenon seen in virtually all "one-man shows" is that they actually start to decline many years before the founder's death. More often than not, the business dies before its founder. To understand why this happens it might help to look at men and women's lifecycle of energy, agressiveness and good ole "get up and go." THE ENERGY LIFECYCLE OF MEN If we force ment to wait until they ahve built up enough capital in another trade to start farming, as we currently have been doing, we have them out of sync with their energy lifecycle and have probably denied them the chance to become wealthy. Men have a relatively short energy lifecycle compared with women and it is important that they be able to get on with their careers as early in life as possible. As we shall see, the New Zealand goal of a farmer havin made his pile and being largely retired from the active phase of farming by age 50 fits the maile lifecycle extremely well... ============================== Anyway, I am not trying to say that our objective is to create a bunch of rich farmers -- but I do agree with Allan Nation's point that we need to work out a plan to get men on the land and working, when they still have the energy and enthusiasm to develop something -- instead of insisting that they must somehow pay for their land themselves, which usually means doing a lot of work off farm. And if they farm, the emphasis is usually on growing vegetables with petroleum-powered equipment -- not growing grain with oxen. Somehow or other our farm communities must make the commitment to training young men in ox-powered farming, and putting them on their own land. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 1999 Report Share Posted January 19, 1999 On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, COM: Madhava Gosh Prabhu wrote: > More of a crisis than Y2K in agriculture is the lack of young farmers. >My one brother is 47 and the other is 41, and the younger one and a few >others > between him and the 47 year old are the youngest farmers still working. >There are virtually none younger than that. What are your nephews planning to do? As it seems there's a healthy profit from your brothers' farm, are they not planning to continue in this successful family business? It's nice to hear of a farm that has been able to keep the whole family together. On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, COM: Hare Krsna dasi wrote: > >Somehow or other our farm communities must make the commitment to training >young men in ox-powered farming, and putting them on their own land. This is such a vital point, the essence of our future stability as a society. Is there any information on the ages of devotee farmers? How many work their own family farms or have secured land from ISKCON? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 1999 Report Share Posted January 20, 1999 COM: Nistula (das) ACBSP (Sri Pundarik Dham - Bangladesh) wrote: > [Text 2029448 from COM] > > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, COM: Madhava Gosh Prabhu wrote: > > > More of a crisis than Y2K in agriculture is the lack of young farmers. > >My one brother is 47 and the other is 41, and the younger one and a few > >others > > between him and the 47 year old are the youngest farmers still working. > >There are virtually none younger than that. > > What are your nephews planning to do? They are only two. One is still in college with no plans to go into farming and the other is a customer sevice rep for Revlon. > As it seems there's a healthy profit from your brothers' farm, > are they not planning to continue in this successful family business? I don't know where you got the impression there is a healthy profit. They are totally struggling. My sister -in-law works for Social Security and that keeps things floating. They are successful at producing, but they aren't making any money. Wheat is selling now for less a bushel then it did in 1890. The cost of production on wheat currently exceeds the market price. My brother was talking about a 25 year cycle that comes along where the next generation is enabled to get on the land by a few profitable years. Happened in the late 40s and then again in the early 70s. We are overdue at this point. I had 2 first cousins about my age(49) who farmed all their lives and both just quit this last year. Their children now have not even got an option to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 1999 Report Share Posted January 21, 1999 COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote: > [Text 2029859 from COM] > > COM: Nistula (das) ACBSP (Sri Pundarik Dham - Bangladesh) wrote: > > > [Text 2029448 from COM] > >> As it seems there's a healthy profit from your brothers' farm, > > are they not planning to continue in this successful family business? > > I don't know where you got the impression there is a healthy profit. They are > totally struggling. My sister -in-law works for Social Security and that keeps > things floating. They are successful at producing, but they aren't making > any money. Wheat is selling now for less a bushel then it did in 1890. The cost > > of production on wheat currently exceeds the market price. > > My brother was talking about a 25 year cycle that comes along where the next > generation is enabled to get on the land by a few profitable years. Happened in > the late 40s and then again in the early 70s. We are overdue at this point. > > I had 2 first cousins about my age(49) who farmed all their lives and both > just quit this last year. Their children now have not even got an option to > continue. ============================ Hare Krsna dasi comments: "I don't know where you got the impression there is a healthy profit. They are totally struggling." Madhava Gosh prabhu -- Did you see President Clinton's State of the Union address on Tuesday? I couldn't help feel a bit of irony when he said, "I know everyone knows about the farm crisis." The truth is that even most American's don't have a clue to how much farmers are struggling. Banks are doing great. Stocks are doing great. Technology is doing great. But the people who produce our food are being ground down to nothing. Our dialogue began with a discussion of how Y2K will grind down farmers, and I thought it was an interesting coincidence that those two items were together in Clinton's address: ====================== We must bring prosperity back to the family farm. Dropping prices and the loss of foreign markets have devastated too many family farmers. I am ready to work with lawmakers of both parties to create a farm safety net including crop insurance reform and farm income assistance. {Sounds like trying to bring subsidies back. Realistic. Farming can't survive on straight market-oriented production without big help from the government.- HKDD} We must strengthen our lead in techology. Government investment led to the creation of the Internet. I propose a nearly 30 percent increase in long-term computing research. We must be ready for the 21st century from its very first moment, by solving the "Y2K" computer problem. If we work hard with state and local governments and busiensses large and small, the "Y2K problem" can be remembered as the last headache of the 20th century, not the first crisis of the 21st.>> ==================== This is the text from the New York Times. In the actual presentation of the talk, Clinton was interrupted by applause 95 times, but when he mentioned solving Y2K, the house was silent, he quipped, "Only one person is applauding..." Probably Senator Bennet from Utah, who heads the Y2K committee. Anyway, the sad fact is that the government really doesn't have the answer to farming or to the Y2K computer problem. Srila Prabhupada wanted small family farms with simple living and high thinking. Only Krsna consciousness would be able to solve both problems. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 1999 Report Share Posted January 22, 1999 > > > Madhava Gosh prabhu -- Did you see President Clinton's State of the Union > address > on Tuesday? We briefly tuned in, but waht is the use? You never know with that guy what his operative definition is for any given word or term. > Anyway, the sad fact is that the government really doesn't have the answer to > farming or to the Y2K computer problem. Personally, when things start getting bad, i think it will help me. Modern agriculture is heavily dependent on oil in the form of transporting goods great distances to markets and for fertiliser to stimulate artificial growth. If the fertilser isn't there for spring planting , the soil goes into withdrawal and a years crop is lost. I have a small little organic market garden. If oil goes up, like in the early 70s when it doubled almost over night, and California takes a hit, my business will thrive due to lessened competition. Y2K? Bring it on! On the grain front, it'll take a couple of seasons to empty out the bins. Also, when the large livestock producers can't afford to feed their animals, first thing we will notice in the US is a dramatic drop in meat prices as breeding stock is liquidated. I don't know what will happen in countries like India where most of the grain feeds people instead of livestock already, and the farmers are just as strung out on fertiliser stimulation. Could get rough there. Just a guess of course, but I would rather be stateside where grain can be diverted from livestock to people. > Srila Prabhupada wanted small family > farms > with simple living and high thinking. Only Krsna consciousness would be able > to > solve both problems. > > your servant, > > Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 1999 Report Share Posted February 1, 1999 > > > When I worked for Agricultural Institute some time ago, once in some > database I've found an intesting thing. It was information about > some plant, sorry I forgot it's botanic name, and this plant had > interesting characteristics. By using certain technalogy, > this plant was suitable for gasoline production. And in the result, in > according with scientific data, gasline, made of this plant, would > be cheaper than gasoline production out of naphta oil. We investigated alcohol as an alternate fuel years ago. It can be made from any biomass. I actually planted some hybrid poplars that have grown really fast since then if anyone is interested in some cuttings. You trim new growth with leaves off the tree and then ferment that for the alcohol. Hemp would work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 1999 Report Share Posted February 2, 1999 >Personally, when things start getting bad, i think it will help me. >Modern agriculture is heavily dependent on oil in the form of >transporting goods great distances to markets and for fertiliser to >stimulate artificial growth. If the fertilser isn't there for spring >planting , the soil goes into withdrawal and a years crop is lost. Dear Madhava Gosh Prabhu, please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Huh, now I'm back on COM, after a week of silence. No, it's not Y2K beginning, just a local Internet node crash. When I worked for Agricultural Institute some time ago, once in some database I've found an intesting thing. It was information about some plant, sorry I forgot it's botanic name, and this plant had interesting characteristics. By using certain technalogy, this plant was suitable for gasoline production. And in the result, in according with scientific data, gasline, made of this plant, would be cheaper than gasoline production out of naphta oil. Maybe, there is nothing unusual in this information, but I've not heard that any devotee's farm is using this techology. I know that in somewhere India they produce natural gas of cow dung. So with some endevour there should not be a problem with fuel in Y2K. (BTW, whether Y2k will begin or not, mineral resourses are limited, and quite soon many of them will be exhausted, so it should worry us more, than computer crashes.) Your servant, Oleg 3.23 beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.