Guest guest Posted December 11, 1998 Report Share Posted December 11, 1998 >[Text 1928165 from COM] > > "I am most concerned for the welfare and future of the children. I have >seen for many years that they have been neglected and severely damaged. I >have tried to understand why this is so. I have come to terms with the >reasons why this happened and my conclusions were startling, even to myself. >I stand by these conclusions and will not step back from them, for unless >one understands the root cause of a disease, one cannot factually cure it. And how does he show his concern, by marrying another man's wife. This guy is pathetic. Ys. JMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1998 Report Share Posted December 12, 1998 Sridhari (AT) lanet (DOT) com.ar Sridhari.JPS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se telef: +54 - 61 - 221806 Mendoza - Argentina > And how does he show his concern, by marrying another man's wife. This guy > is pathetic. > > Ys. JMd May be Harikesa Prabhu isn't is his best times of your life, but I don't think proper to judge him, or saying that he is a pathetic guy. He has done a lot for SP pleasure, he has connect lots of people with the Krsna conciousness, and inspire them to engage in devotional service, and if we think on it, and his discipules I found your expression out of context Prabhu. Lets better pray for him, that the Lord can go on spreading some mercy on him, sadly he is not the only one, who fall down, we all know that much higher we are, more deep we fall, but intelligent people also learn from mistakes and I personally hope that he will get up. Ys, Sridhari dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1998 Report Share Posted December 12, 1998 Sridhari (AT) lanet (DOT) com.ar Sridhari.JPS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se telef: +54 - 61 - 221806 Mendoza - Argentina May be I am out of context, but I know this letter and it is incomplete, so we cann't have a really idea about his feelings, May be someone post it complete and I miss it, but I understand that before making some comments on this, we have to read it as Harikesa Prabhu wrote it, If nobody has it complete I can forward to the conferences if you all like it. Ys, Sridhari devi dasi ---------- > De: COM: Harsi (das) HKS (Timisoara - RO) <Harsi.HKS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> > A: COM: DMW (Dharma of Men and Women) <DMW (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: (ISKCON) Social and Economic Development <Social.and.Economic.Development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Varnasrama development <Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> > Asunto: However, it might be required... > Fecha: Viernes 11 de Diciembre de 1998 17:00 > > [Text 1928165 from COM] > > "I am most concerned for the welfare and future of the children. I have > seen for many years that they have been neglected and severely damaged. I > have tried to understand why this is so. I have come to terms with the > reasons why this happened and my conclusions were startling, even to myself. > I stand by these conclusions and will not step back from them, for unless > one understands the root cause of a disease, one cannot factually cure it. > > As we are dealing with people, we cannot overlook their pain simply to > maintain some status quo. The child is the father of man. A society which > does not care for, protect and nurture its children is a foolish one at best > and a sick one as well. Without developing the younger generations, a > society is dead. An intelligent person will think deeply about why such > things happened in ISKCON and what were the actual causes. > > While meditating deeply about the situation of the children and seeing > parallels in my own life, I came to understand that there were serious > mistakes made in the conception of ISKCON by Srila Prabhupada. > > Please understand, this realization was extremely painful for me and it > caused me intense anxiety. However, I cannot deny this, neither will I make > the usual adjustments to sidestep the situation through some form of > rationalization. > I do not think that admitting that Srila Prabhupada made mistakes > compromises his position as a pure devotee, for everyone within the material > world makes mistakes as this is the nature of the material world. > > Unless the mistakes are deeply understood, there is no question of > correcting them. What I said about Prabhupada was in relation to the > creation of the institution, managerial affairs, and the difficulty with the > understanding of family life. > > I still love him as a person, as I have always, but I am deeply hurt and > need time to recover before I can be more enthusiastic. > Certainly he helped me very much and I am indebted and appreciative to him > for that. I certainly tried my best to serve him as he wanted, even > sometimes against my better judgment, and often at extremely great personal > risks, as when I preached in the East. Although others cannot see it, we > have resolved the problems within our relationship, and all is fine. > > I understand that for ISKCON as an institution to come to terms with such > an understanding would be almost impossible and I am in no illusion at > present that it will happen soon. However, it might be required." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1998 Report Share Posted December 12, 1998 PAMHO. AGTSP. > > And how does he show his concern, by marrying another man's wife. This > > guy is pathetic. > > > > Ys. JMd > > May be Harikesa Prabhu isn't is his best times of your life, but I don't > think proper to judge him, or saying that he is a pathetic guy. He has > done a lot for SP pleasure, he has connect lots of people with the Krsna > conciousness, and inspire them to engage in devotional service, and if we > think on it, and his discipules I found your expression out of context > Prabhu. > Lets better pray for him, that the Lord can go on spreading some mercy on > him, sadly he is not the only one, who fall down, we all know that much > higher we are, more deep we fall, but intelligent people also learn from > mistakes and I personally hope that he will get up. > > Ys, Sridhari dd Here is an excerpt from a warning text sent by our SysOp, Raktambara Prabhu, to (COM) System (Info) a few days ago: > Now, this must stop. If more such texts are brought to my attention > written after coming Friday, I will block that person's COM access for > three months. No individual warning or explanation will be given, since it > was given here. > > Such criticism is very destructive. First of all for those who engage in > it, and second of all it works incredibly on my nerves. After all, who > feels good maintaining a mail server that is mainly used to fight with and > flame other people? > > As an appendix to the above, the following must be added: > > There should be no advocation or defense of Harikesa Dasa's present > philosophies on COM. But there should be no insulting of Harikesa Dasa on > COM either. > > The only exception to this rule is the conference called "SV Disciples" > (for present or previous HK disciples) where I will not interfere with the > policies of the organizer. For any other conference, I will definitely > interfere. Ys Vdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1998 Report Share Posted December 12, 1998 >> There should be no advocation or defense of Harikesa Dasa's present >> philosophies on COM. But there should be no insulting of Harikesa Dasa on >> COM either. >> >> The only exception to this rule is the conference called "SV Disciples" >> (for present or previous HK disciples) where I will not interfere with the >> policies of the organizer. For any other conference, I will definitely >> interfere. > >Ys Vdd Agnivarna Prabhu sent Harikesa's text to VAD before the sysop made this statement. Then Harsi Prabhu cross-posted it under this subject line to 2 additional conferences. The letter itself is full of nonsense, and the GBC EC has issued an official statement, saying that H has been suspended as guru due to "lack of faith in Srila Prabhupad and his inability to represent the standards and teachings of our disciplic succession and Vedic shastra" and that "Harikesa dasa himself has repeatedly stated that he no longer wishes to be seen in the role of a spiritual master." Ravindra Svarupa, Sesa, and Badrinarayan Prabhus have also written that those who were initiated by Harikesa dasa are fortunate to always have "the security and shelter of Srila Prabhupada's books, his personal example, his service, the Deities, and above all the association of the Vaishnavas." and we also pray that he may once again "revive his full faith in Srila Prabhupad and the ability to work within the standards and system of mangement Srila Prabhupad, as the founder/acharya of ISKCON personally established." We share these sentiments. Maybe the sysops will remove the letter from COM altogether. In any event, the organizers of DMW will now be subtracting DMW as a future receiver of this thread. Ys. JMd, Sdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1998 Report Share Posted December 13, 1998 Jivan Mukta Das wrote: > Then Harsi Prabhu cross-posted it under this subject line to 2 > additional conferences. The letter itself is full of nonsense, and the GBC > EC has... Now if the content of this letter is "nonsense" in your opinion, then I wonder what your impertinent comments to diferent subjects matter are... Nothing against you personally, but one has to be endeed completely brainwashed or in a cult consciousness instead of Krsna consciousness to not see what is obvious, after all that got revealed about this matter in the last months, and that was just the top of the iceberg. If someone is a founder of an institution and also designer of its managerial affairs where hundreds of inocent people are hurt and mistreated, than his responsability is involved hearin, there is no doubt about it. Now if the GBC EC whants to excomunicate me also because of my opinion, because I also stand for it, they are free to do it, I dont mine. Ys Harsi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 1998 Report Share Posted December 15, 1998 I have frozen the accounts of Jivan Mukta das and Harsi das for 3 months. This is a final decision and not open to discussion. ys rakt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 1999 Report Share Posted June 25, 1999 > May be Harikesa Prabhu isn't is his best times of your life, but I don't > think proper to judge him, or saying that he is a pathetic guy. He has > done a lot for SP pleasure, he has connected lots of people with the Krsna > conciousness, and inspired them to engage in devotional service, and if we > think on it, and his disciples I found your expression out of context > Prabhu. > Lets better pray for him, that the Lord can go on spreading some mercy on > him, sadly he is not the only one, who fall down, we all know that much > higher we are, more deep we fall, but intelligent people also learn from > mistakes and I personally hope that he will get up. > Ys, Sridhari dd Thankyou prabhu for your nice words. I guess your terms "fall down" are refering to Harikesa Prabhus change of asrama, which he will do soon in an oficial way, therefore I think it is interesting to know in this conection also Prabhupadas practice of giving sanyas to some of his close disciples who he considered fit to be preachers for spreading his movement worldwide. Often the decision to take sanyasa or to "get up" how you would call it, did not came first, as we would expect it, from his disciples, some where at that time in theyr twentees or thertees, but rather was a result of his preaching to them, like I heard ones in a lecture from Harikesa Prabhu about how Srila Prabhupada was convincing him to take up this asram, because he wanted to send him as a preacher to the west. Now at least I know, that I would have had a hard time in following my spiritual master if he would have convinced me to take sannyasa at the age of 28 years, therefore I have the greatest respect for someone who considered it at his duty to remain and follow the strict rules of the sannyasa asram for more than twenty years, out of respect and obedience to his spiritual masters order. Therefore I personally dont consider his taking up the grihasta asram as a fall down rather as stepping back from a asram which he took up out of duty and obedience to his spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada. I,m shure Srila Prabhupada would not judge him diferently since I,m convinced that Prabhupada was aware that he was in a emergency situation, where he tryd to introduce the vedic system of varna and asramas in 12 years time, and that many who where in this asramas, where there more or less in an artificial place in the long run, like we could see it manifest over the years. I think now that this emergency situation is over we should think of introducing the system of varna and asrama in a more natural way and take up the sanyasa asram at old age when one is wise and mature, like Srila Prabhupada gave us the example. Ys. Harsi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 1999 Report Share Posted June 25, 1999 > May be Harikesa Prabhu isn't is his best times of your life, but I don't > think proper to judge him, or saying that he is a pathetic guy. He has > done a lot for SP pleasure, he has connected lots of people with the Krsna > conciousness, and inspired them to engage in devotional service, and if we > think on it, and his disciples I found your expression out of context > Prabhu. > Lets better pray for him, that the Lord can go on spreading some mercy on > him, sadly he is not the only one, who fall down, we all know that much > higher we are, more deep we fall, but intelligent people also learn from > mistakes and I personally hope that he will get up. > Ys, Sridhari dd Thankyou prabhu for your nice words. I guess your terms "fall down" are refering to Harikesa Prabhus change of asrama, which he will do soon in an oficial way, therefore I think it is interesting to know in this conection also Prabhupadas practice of giving sanyas to some of his close disciples who he considered fit to be preachers for spreading his movement worldwide. Often the decision to take sanyasa or to "get up" how you would call it, did not came first, as we would expect it, from his disciples, some where at that time in theyr twentees or thertees, but rather was a result of his preaching to them, like I heard ones in a lecture from Harikesa Prabhu about how Srila Prabhupada was convincing him to take up this asram, because he wanted to send him as a preacher to the west. Now at least I know, that I would have had a hard time in following my spiritual master if he would have convinced me to take sannyasa at the age of 28 years, therefore I have the greatest respect for someone who considered it at his duty to remain and follow the strict rules of the sannyasa asram for more than twenty years, out of respect and obedience to his spiritual masters order. Therefore I personally dont consider his taking up the grihasta asram as a fall down rather as stepping back from a asram which he took up out of duty and obedience to his spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada. I,m shure Srila Prabhupada would not judge him diferently since I,m convinced that Prabhupada was aware that he was in a emergency situation, where he tryd to introduce the vedic system of varna and asramas in 12 years time, and that many who where in this asramas, where there more or less in an artificial place in the long run, like we could see it manifest over the years. I think now that this emergency situation is over we should think of introducing the system of varna and asrama in a more natural way and take up the sanyasa asram at old age when one is wise and mature, like Srila Prabhupada gave us the example. Ys. Harsi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 > > I think now that this emergency situation is over we should think of > introducing the system of varna and asrama in a more natural way and take up > the sanyasa asram at old age when one is wise and mature, like Srila > Prabhupada gave us the example. > I agree with you Prabhu on this, and hope that devotees can take the good example of Srila Krsna Ksetra Prabhu (ACBSP) that is successfully preaching with words and example (acarya) being a simple Brahmachari. Then, in an older age, vaisnavas can take Sannyasi avoiding more risks. ys, Sdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 1999 Report Share Posted July 3, 1999 > > I think now that this emergency situation is over we should think of > introducing the system of varna and asrama in a more natural way and take up > the sanyasa asram at old age when one is wise and mature, like Srila > Prabhupada gave us the example. > I agree with you Prabhu on this, and hope that devotees can take the good example of Srila Krsna Ksetra Prabhu (ACBSP) that is successfully preaching with words and example (acarya) being a simple Brahmachari. Then, in an older age, vaisnavas can take Sannyasi avoiding more risks. ys, Sdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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