Speculative business enterprise is considered to be degrading

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna dasi

*******************************

 

I certainly do not want to offend anyone, but when we are talking about

business investment, we must be very careful that we do not mistakenly

break the regulative principle against gambling and speculation.

 

Srila Prabhupada allowed his devotees to be engaged in small businesses to

maintain themselves. But I do not believe that he approved of an

investment which is little more than a gambling proposition, wherein one

invests a sum of money and without doing any further work, he takes some

profits.

 

Srila Prabhupada even criticized the Moslems for introducing the idle

landlord or Zamindar class into Indian society. Prabhupada preached that

one's method of livelihood should be very simple and fair.

 

In speculation, it may seem that no one is being hurt, but somehow or

other there are always little people working very hard at the bottom of

the pyramid, and the money is taken from them. However, the people

investing the money are not making any productive contribution to society

at all. This type of social arrangement is not the varnasrama ideal.

Srila Prabhupada never indicated that he believed in compensation for

so-called "opportunity costs" which is a major tenet of belief in the

modern capitalist faith. (It can almost be called a faith, because it is

just like a religion.)

 

Anyway, I'm not sure what type of arrangement is being referred to in the

present proposal, but it seems like a good time to remind ourselves of

some of Prabhupada's instructions on speculative investment, since at

least outside the devotee community there are sure to be many

entrepreneurs who will try to entice us into various types of speculative

investment, thereby weakening our spiritual potency:

 

*************************************

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1: Chapter Seventeen, Text 38

:PURPORT

 

Gambling of all description, even speculative business enterprise, is

considered to be degrading, and when gambling is encouraged in the state,

there is a complete disappearance of truthfulness.

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 7: Chapter Seven, Text 41 :TRANSLATION

 

A materialistic person, thinking himself very advanced in

intelligence, continually acts for economic development. But again and

again, as enunciated in the Vedas, he is frustrated by material

activities, either in this life or in the next. Indeed, the results one

obtains are inevitably the opposite of those one desires.

 

 

Hong Kong

1 February, 1974

 

Dear Madhavananda,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of

January 14, 1974.

Please see that accounts are kept carefully, not that money is taken for

whimsical expenditure. Be vigilant. Syamasundara has made a scandal by

taking money of the society's and investing it in business. This kind of

thing should be carefully watched. I am still awaiting repayment from

Shayamasundar.

 

 

Room Conversation with Reporter

from Researchers Magazine

July 24, 1973, London

 

Prabhupada: So this is government's duty, that you are claiming that

everyone should be employed, everyone should be engaged, in his own

occupation. That is called svadharmena idanasya(?). Sva-dharma means the

brahmana, katriya, vaisya, sudra. By quality. Guna-karma. By quality and

work. So it is the duty of the government to see that a sudra is employed,

is engaged as a sudra, a vaisya is employed and engaged as... Just like

vaisya. Vaisya, it is said that krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma

svabhava-jam. Now the vaisyas, they are in the share market speculating.

Reporter: Hm. There are no more vaisyas. (laughs) Exactly.

Prabhupada: Industrialists. Industrialists means sudras. So if they're

sudras, why they should claim as...

Reporter: Vaisyas.

Prabhupada: This is government's duty. To see, "Why you are claiming

vaisya? If your industry is to produce food grains, agriculture, give

protection to the cows..." So in India ten thousand cows are being killed,

and the vaisyas are big, big (indistinct), big, big zamindars. You see.

Reporter: Sitting quiet. (laughs) Yes.

 

Description by Lord Kapila of Adverse Fruitive Activities

SB 3.30.1 Purport

 

One should not earn by such unfair means. The same is applicable to a

ksatriya or to a vaisya. It is especially mentioned that the means of

livelihood of those who are trying to advance in Krsna consciousness must

be very fair and uncomplicated. Here it is mentioned that he who earns his

livelihood by unfair means (kevalena) is sent to the darkest hellish

region. Otherwise, if one maintains his family by prescribed methods and

honest means, there is no objection to one's being a family man.

 

 

Room Conversation

London, August 1, 1972

 

Prabhupada: ...viaya chaiya. Oh, yes, then it is (indistinct). Viaya

chaiya, se rase majiya mukhe bolo hari hari, parama karuna, pahu dui jana.

But even if we do speculation business and do it for Kna, that is not

good.

Devotee: Not so high a class.

Prabhupada: They are doing little business because ghasthas, they require

money. All right, do some incense, this, that. Not very big business.

 

****************************************************

 

So all I'm saying is let's keep Srila Prabhupada's instructions in mind,

and not accidentally involve ourselves in activities which he would not

approve of.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

***********************************************

 

 

On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, COM: Gauranga (das) ACBSP (AU) wrote:

 

> [Text 2032200 from COM]

>

> Dear Kaunteya Prabhu,

>

> Hare Krishna !

>

> Thank you for your emails and sorry for the delays in replying. My brother

> and sister have been here visiting with me for some time and I have been

> doing a bit of travelling around Australia over the last month.

>

> There seems to be a number of things on my mind regarding many of the global

> changes that seem to be coming up this year. We also have to be aware of a

> lot of disinformation that the powers that be want us to believe in so that

> they do achieve the panic and the fear that they want to create. Remember,

> in psychological understandings of controlling the masses, many manipulators

> use fear and anger to control the emotions of masses of people.

>

> I have had many talks with senior people in the banking and international

> markets about the y2k problem. They all say that it is overstated. Some

> senior people in the programming also say that much of it can be fixed in a

> relative short period. Yet there is alot of information as to what is going

> to happen because of all the chips and software that is not y2k compliant.

> Yes, I believe there will be a lot of disruption in mainstream society that

> we will have to deal with. But the world will still run and banking and

> commerece still will go on. In fact many people become very rich during

> these times of economic and financial upheavels. This I absolutely believe

> is manipulated by the people who control the money supply in this world and

> these are the same people who control the multinational corporations around

> the world. How and when they plan to create wars, cause financial crashes

> and orchestrate and control the world chaos so as to suit their own plans,

> is another story. Some say that there is not enough things in place by the

> year 2000 for the globalisation or one world order to come into place. But

> they are very well organised and will soon implement many of there moves.

> Its like a large chess game. Unfortunately many of the pawns ( masses ) will

> be sacrificed. This is the sad and twisted mentality of these demoniac

> people who care not for the gift of human life, except their own.

>

> America economy will fall, how low is another matter, but it is all being

> planned out for the gain of a few and the losses of the many. I urge you to

> get a copy of the video, The Money Masters at www.themoneymasters.com and

> listen to many sincere and well educated people about the upcoming crash.

> This video will change the way you look at money and who controls it and

> why, for the rest of your life. Because the Fed knows that there will be a

> run on banks, they have created 50 Billion surplus dollars to deal with the

> matter plus I am sure they will have other contingent plans in place to

> dealt with the chaos. This is being copied by other reserves around the

> world.

>

> Being prepared is a good thing in any case. All the devotee communities

> should have this in place years ago. But better late than never. We do not

> know again exactly when these so called leaders will play their cards. July

> 99 is what many experts in many different fields are saying. ITs amasing how

> the usa economy is still being proped up. Everyone knows that the bubble is

> going to burst and anyone with any brain substance at all will get out of

> the markets. If anything, they should be looking to sell short the S&P 500

> futures market. .

>

> But at present, I am helping devotees with investment programs that I am

> facilitating. I am aware of the the US$ and what may happen to it and the

> Eurodollar coming into play. But with the type of returns that people get

> from the investment programs that I am facilitating, they will hardly find

> something as good as this.

>

> These programs and opportunity will begin in Feb 1999. There will be two

> investment programs.

>

> Program A

>

> Minimum Investment US$ 10,000. and multiples of 10 K ie 20K, 30K etcI

> Returns 10 % a month.

> Duration of contract is for 10 Months.

> Contract Agreement are given.

> Receipt of Funds

>

> For investments wired to us during the month of Feb the investment begins in

> Mar 99 and first monthly returns will be sent to you in April and every

> month thereafter. After this period you will be asked what would

> like to do; ie roll it over again or withdraw your funds.

>

> Investors with 2 Million Plus = Special Programs are available.

>

> Progarm B

>

> Minimum Investment US$ 10,000. and multiples of 5K - ie 15 K , 20K, 25 K ,

> 30K etcI

> Returns 5 % a month.

> Duration is on a month to month basis, 30 day notice to close account.

> Contract Agreement are given.

> Receipt of Funds,

>

> For investments wired to us during the month of Feb the investment begins in

> Mar 99 and first monthly returns will be sent to you in April and every

> month thereafter. If you wish you can close you account with us

> anytime, but 30 days notice must be given.

>

> The difference between Program A and B is that program A is locked in for a

> period of 10 months period and Program B account can be closed very quickly

> giving you the client greater liquidity. Also Program A returns

> 10% per month whereas Program B returns 5% per month.

>

> Because I know I can deliver these types of returns, I put them into writing

> in the agreement contact.

>

> As far as security of the investment, like any other investment there are no

> securities. Except at the higher levels of investment such as 2 Mil plus.

> When people make investments they always have to trust somebody. Therefore I

> always prefer to deal with people who I know and they know me, as best as

> possible. Some

> people like to test the water and will put in a lesser amount. That is okay.

> But this is a confidential investment program. I prefer to keep in to

> friends, devotees and their very close families.

>

> However we do provide an agreement with the investor and us. There are no

> middle men involved it is just the Investment Trust and the investment

> company who make the profits directly through legal and proper

> arrangements with large institutions like the FED, the IMF etc, major banks,

> large brokering houses etc...

>

> The procedure will be like this.

>

> 1. When you are ready, let me know. I will email you a document that you wil

> l sign and fax back to me.

> 2. After receiving your signed application, I will prepare the agreement and

> send it to you. It will have the wiring insturctions etc..

> 3. After receipt of the funds and also a faxed copy of the TT ( wire

> transfer ) I will send you receipt of funds.

> 4. I will either contact you each month or you will nominate the account in

> the initial agreement as to where you would like the profits sent each

> month.

> 5. You may at anytime increase the investment by multiples of 10K

>

> If you have any questions or comments please do let me know. At this stage,

> I am not coming to the Mayapur festival. Too many things to do. But I am

> always anxious to visit India and the Holy Dhams.

>

> Sincerely

> gauranga dasa

>

>

> >[Text 1983450 from COM]

> >

> >Dear Gauranga Prabhu,

> >please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.

> >

> >Happy new year.

> >

> >One thing I was considering: the "Apocalypse 1999?" conference is now

> almost

> >exclusively focused on Y2K. This, in my opinion, has its drawbacks:

> >

> >1. I am personally convinced that a lot of problems can come before the end

> >of the year from other sources, like the meltdown of the economy or even a

> >nuclear conflict starting somewhere.

> >

> >2. Devotees could start seeing the deadline for preparation as 12 months

> >from now, and missing the chance to draw contingency plans for, say, the

> >middle of the year.

> >

> >Could you kindly post on the conference an article, a text on what do you

> >expect in terms of the financial crash the you mentioned before?

> >If you do not have time you could just send one the letters that you wrote

> >to GBCs informing them of the things to come.

> >

> >Thank you.

> >

> >your servant, Kaunteya das

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA) wrote:

 

> [Text 2051952 from COM]

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

> *******************************

>

> I certainly do not want to offend anyone, but when we are talking about

> business investment, we must be very careful that we do not mistakenly

> break the regulative principle against gambling and speculation.

 

I don't know the devotee involved in this offering, so it is possible that he

is

sincere and really does have something going on, but the setup is that of the

classical Ponzi scam. he may even be an unwitting pawn in the hands of a Ponzi

schemer.

 

For those who don't know, a Ponzi scheme is when an offering like this is

made.

The money is never actuall invested, it is used to pay out the 10% a month to

the

first investors. They get excited and through word of mouth get their friends

involved, who also get returns for a little while, until the original schemer

has a big enough pile and then he skies.

 

Of course, this may not be the case here, but the front end is identical. It

is

a very effective scheme targeted at rich people. I hope the devotee involved

in

this offering isn't offended by what I am saying, but unless i had it very

clearly shown to me where the money was being invested, and saw the money was

going to a disinterested third party like a bank or reputable investment

company

to be invested, I wouldn't touch this one.

 

If I did have $10,000 in loose change, I would either invest it in real estate

(sorry, I am a landlord, but it is more a business than a speculative

venture,

IMHO) or a photovoltaic system for my house. $10,000 would run everything

except

the refrigerateur (for another $2,000 I could get one that only uses 1/7 the

energy) and the hot water heater.

 

Last I checked prices, about 5 years ago, I would have gotten a 1% return on

investment annually. That is based on 5.5 cents a kilowatt/hour ( which is

very

cheap - we are close to the big coal fired generators) and solar panel prices

of

5 years ago. I have heard rumors the prices have dipped a little, but haven't

confirmed that. In areas of no availability, or higher rates, that ROI could

esaily be a little higher.

 

Not worth it from an investment point of view, but if there are

disruptions....then how would you calculate the return?