Speculative business enterprise is considered to be degrading

[Guest guest]

COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA) wrote:

 

> [Text 2051952 from COM]

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

> *******************************

>

> I certainly do not want to offend anyone, but when we are talking about

> business investment, we must be very careful that we do not mistakenly

> break the regulative principle against gambling and speculation.

 

I don't know the devotee involved in this offering, so it is possible that he

is

sincere and really does have something going on, but the setup is that of the

classical Ponzi scam. he may even be an unwitting pawn in the hands of a Ponzi

schemer.

 

For those who don't know, a Ponzi scheme is when an offering like this is

made.

The money is never actuall invested, it is used to pay out the 10% a month to

the

first investors. They get excited and through word of mouth get their friends

involved, who also get returns for a little while, until the original schemer

has a big enough pile and then he skies.

 

Of course, this may not be the case here, but the front end is identical. It

is

a very effective scheme targeted at rich people. I hope the devotee involved

in

this offering isn't offended by what I am saying, but unless i had it very

clearly shown to me where the money was being invested, and saw the money was

going to a disinterested third party like a bank or reputable investment

company

to be invested, I wouldn't touch this one.

 

If I did have $10,000 in loose change, I would either invest it in real estate

(sorry, I am a landlord, but it is more a business than a speculative

venture,

IMHO) or a photovoltaic system for my house. $10,000 would run everything

except

the refrigerateur (for another $2,000 I could get one that only uses 1/7 the

energy) and the hot water heater.

 

Last I checked prices, about 5 years ago, I would have gotten a 1% return on

investment annually. That is based on 5.5 cents a kilowatt/hour ( which is

very

cheap - we are close to the big coal fired generators) and solar panel prices

of

5 years ago. I have heard rumors the prices have dipped a little, but haven't

confirmed that. In areas of no availability, or higher rates, that ROI could

esaily be a little higher.

 

Not worth it from an investment point of view, but if there are

disruptions....then how would you calculate the return?

[Guest guest]

On 28 Jan 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

 

 

> So all I'm saying is let's keep Srila Prabhupada's instructions in mind,

> and not accidentally involve ourselves in activities which he would not

> approve of.

 

 

 

I am totally un-Krsna conscious. From what you are saying I presume you mean

to say that Srila Prabhupada would not "approve" of this. What now?

 

If I were a ksatriya on a battlefield, fighting to get back my big, big,

kingdom (which my brother lost due to gambling), and I had to kill many

people, even my gurus, (with the help of my other big brother who eats

meat)would it be better to just leave the battlefield and go to the forest and

live by begging than to involve myself in all these "bad" activities and bad

association?

 

If I were a prostitute in a big city which was inhabited only by devotees

should I give up my oocupation because of its degrading and filthy activities

and bad influence on the other inhabitants? Or would it be alright to actually

invite God into my apartments to personally witness my occupation and show Him

how good I can do this work which I was given by tricks of chance or whatever

reason I'm doing it?

 

Just wondering.

[Guest guest]

> I don't know the devotee involved in this offering, so it is possible

> that he is sincere and really does have something going on, but the setup

> is that of the classical Ponzi scam. he may even be an unwitting pawn in

> the hands of a Ponzi schemer.

>

> For those who don't know, a Ponzi scheme is when an offering like this is

> made.

> The money is never actuall invested, it is used to pay out the 10% a

> month to the first investors. They get excited and through word of mouth

> get their friends involved, who also get returns for a little while,

> until the original schemer has a big enough pile and then he skies.

>

> Of course, this may not be the case here, but the front end is

> identical. It is a very effective scheme targeted at rich people. I hope

> the devotee involved in this offering isn't offended by what I am saying,

> but unless i had it very clearly shown to me where the money was being

> invested, and saw the money was going to a disinterested third party like

> a bank or reputable investment company to be invested, I wouldn't touch

> this one.

>

Prabhus,

 

I too, have been involved in investment and money management for many years

in my past karmi life and I agree with Madhava Gosh Prabhu wholeheartedly!

Although this type of return is possible, theoretically, from a legitimate

investment, it smells like a ponzi to me as well.

 

I would not ruke it out if I were to know, in full and complete detail, what

the investment is, where the money goes, and who will be the fund manager.

This is reasonable and proper. It's called "due dilligence" and there's no

excuse for failing to disclose this info.

 

No offense intended to anyone involved, no accusation implied. Just a word

of caution.

 

Hare Krsna.

Madan Mohan

[Guest guest]

Dear Madhava Gosh dasa,

 

In regards to your recent email on speculative business enterprise. Please

note the following.

 

I am not offended by your statements, for I do realise that the information

on the investment programs that I have, are not to be easily understood.

Because the returns are high and are guaranteed, for our conditioned

experience in investments it sounds too good to be true and not possible.

That information got out into the fourm by accident and not by me.

 

Although there are books and documentation on them. ICC the International

Chamber of Commerce have set the quidelines for much of these types of

transactions. The Deutsche Bank, one of the world's top ten banks, had over

800 Billion off balance sheet transactions in 1993. The trading of secondary

bank instruments is a confidential and private area where the minimum are

10Mil to enter. Pool managers gather funds for these programs with high

returns. The difficulty is that there are a lot of scams out there who say

they have a connection but really don't, or someone in the daisy chain is

not ethical and runs away with peoples funds.

 

As far

 

So the answer you question, no this is not a Ponzi scheme of any sorts. Nor

am I in a chain of them. The contacts and traders or fund mangers are

checked with our network right to the top bureaus whether that be the

Federal Reserve or the US Treasury or other such sources. I don't expect you

to understand these returns are possible. I have spent over two years

researching these programs and have spent in the last two years over 20,000

just in my education in the offshore world of international banking,

sturctures and investments. Unless you had the same, you could not believe

what I know to be true and factual. In any case, I wish you all well in

whatever you wish to invest in. These programs generally are by invitation

only by close friends and relatives who have already gotton such returns and

have a bonafide connection to this industry. Remember even reputable banks

and investment companies are going down every day in many countries, they

may be a good idea, but not always a safe one either.

 

Just recently the Bank of America almost went under. They are still not out

of the trouble waters. The president of Bank of America gave an unsecured

loan of 1.4 billion to a hedge fund last year. He has subsequently resigned

and an investigation by the SEC is going on. So even banks are vunderable.

 

But I wish you all well. I was just sharing some information of what I was

doing and responding to a few friends who know me anywhere from 5 to 25

years in the movement. Somehow it got mainstream. I have plenty of business

to conduct here with my Asian contacts. So good luck in what you wish to

pursue.

 

I will write an article on the global finance and the uncoming collapse of

the us financial and economy. It is coming very soon. This is just

information. One can take it or leave it. It is more for people and devotees

to be aware of what is happening behind the scenes. You can't trust the

media for they have tainted and controlled by high sources which due not

have your best interest at heart.

 

Hoping this greets you in the best of health and KC spirits.

 

sincerely

gauranga dasa (acbsp)