Alternative sources of fuel - 8 considerations

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna dasi

************************************

 

I think there are a number of factors to take into consideration for

plant-based

fuels such as biogas (formerly called "methane") and ethanol.

 

1. Is the fuel crop displacing a human food or animal feed crop?

 

2. Does the fuel crop predispose the soil to erosion? This seems to be true

for corn used for ethanol.

 

3. Does the fuel crop deplete the soil by sucking nutrients out of it which

are

not replaced? Large, non-leguminous plants such as corn are typically heavy

feeders, sucking lots of nitrogen out of the soil. On the other hand, when

plant wastes are combined with human and animal manure in a biogas digester,

the

gaseos component (the biogas) can be used for fuel for cooking or lighting, but

at the same time, the liquid/solid component (the slurry) can still be used as

a

highly nitrogenous fertilizer which can be re-applied to the fields.

 

-- also, from what I understand, there are big cities, (perhaps Copenhagen?)

which use garbage to produce biogas. In that case there in no concern about

the

original crops, since the garbage is simply a bi-product of normal use. The

slurry is used for urban landscaping.

 

4. What does it involve to set up the technology to produce the fuel from the

plant source? Is the technology feasible? Is it affordable? Is it dangerous?

(danger is often a big consideration in producing fuels)

 

5. Aside from the techology, will the plant fuel itself be affordable?

 

6. Can the fuel be used with current engines? As I understand it, ethanol

burns at a hotter temperature than normal gasoline, and can ruin engines not

designed for it.

 

7. Will the research and development of plant-based fuels, divert time and

funding away from developing various animal traction - specifically, ox-power

projects - thus reducing a community's commitment to cow protection.

 

8. Will using a plant-based fuel push the community more in the direction of

simple living or will it push it to another form of dependence on ugra-karma

technology?

 

 

I don't think the case for or against plant-based fuels is an open and shut

case. Sometimes it may be a good idea, other times it may be a bad idea. Any

community interested in looking into this area should seriously consider the

above questions at the beginning of its research.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

COM: (Bhakta) Oleg Demtchenko (Nikolaev - RU) wrote:

 

> [Text 2068735 from COM]

>

> COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote:

>

> > We investigated alcohol as an alternate fuel years ago. It can be made

> > from any biomass. I actually planted some hybrid poplars that have grown

> > really fast since then if anyone is interested in some cuttings. You trim

> > new growth with leaves off the tree and then ferment that for the

> > alcohol.

> >

> > Hemp would work well.

>

> So have you made calculations, is it cheaper than buying gasoline?

> Yes, I know that in some African countries it is cheaper to

> produce alcohol than import naphta oil ('cause they have a lot of

> sugarcane),

> so they even designed engines for local cars for alcohol use.

>

> Or thare is another alternative - get a metan from cow dung (or horse

> dung, pig dung, whatever), compress it and use with metan cars.

>

> Or you can put on the top of your car solar panels (if you are rich

> enough and there is sunny weather). But it's just for entertainment.

>

> It is always better to have many alternative sources.

>

> Hope you are well,

>

> ys bh Oleg.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna dasi

************************************

 

I think there are a number of factors to take into consideration for

plant-based

fuels such as biogas (formerly called "methane") and ethanol.

 

1. Is the fuel crop displacing a human food or animal feed crop?

 

2. Does the fuel crop predispose the soil to erosion? This seems to be true

for corn used for ethanol.

 

3. Does the fuel crop deplete the soil by sucking nutrients out of it which

are

not replaced? Large, non-leguminous plants such as corn are typically heavy

feeders, sucking lots of nitrogen out of the soil. On the other hand, when

plant wastes are combined with human and animal manure in a biogas digester,

the

gaseos component (the biogas) can be used for fuel for cooking or lighting, but

at the same time, the liquid/solid component (the slurry) can still be used as

a

highly nitrogenous fertilizer which can be re-applied to the fields.

 

-- also, from what I understand, there are big cities, (perhaps Copenhagen?)

which use garbage to produce biogas. In that case there in no concern about

the

original crops, since the garbage is simply a bi-product of normal use. The

slurry is used for urban landscaping.

 

4. What does it involve to set up the technology to produce the fuel from the

plant source? Is the technology feasible? Is it affordable? Is it dangerous?

(danger is often a big consideration in producing fuels)

 

5. Aside from the techology, will the plant fuel itself be affordable?

 

6. Can the fuel be used with current engines? As I understand it, ethanol

burns at a hotter temperature than normal gasoline, and can ruin engines not

designed for it.

 

7. Will the research and development of plant-based fuels, divert time and

funding away from developing various animal traction - specifically, ox-power

projects - thus reducing a community's commitment to cow protection.

 

8. Will using a plant-based fuel push the community more in the direction of

simple living or will it push it to another form of dependence on ugra-karma

technology?

 

 

I don't think the case for or against plant-based fuels is an open and shut

case. Sometimes it may be a good idea, other times it may be a bad idea. Any

community interested in looking into this area should seriously consider the

above questions at the beginning of its research.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

COM: (Bhakta) Oleg Demtchenko (Nikolaev - RU) wrote:

 

> [Text 2068735 from COM]

>

> COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote:

>

> > We investigated alcohol as an alternate fuel years ago. It can be made

> > from any biomass. I actually planted some hybrid poplars that have grown

> > really fast since then if anyone is interested in some cuttings. You trim

> > new growth with leaves off the tree and then ferment that for the

> > alcohol.

> >

> > Hemp would work well.

>

> So have you made calculations, is it cheaper than buying gasoline?

> Yes, I know that in some African countries it is cheaper to

> produce alcohol than import naphta oil ('cause they have a lot of

> sugarcane),

> so they even designed engines for local cars for alcohol use.

>

> Or thare is another alternative - get a metan from cow dung (or horse

> dung, pig dung, whatever), compress it and use with metan cars.

>

> Or you can put on the top of your car solar panels (if you are rich

> enough and there is sunny weather). But it's just for entertainment.

>

> It is always better to have many alternative sources.

>

> Hope you are well,

>

> ys bh Oleg.

[Guest guest]

COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA) wrote:

 

> [Text 2069343 from COM]

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

> ************************************

>

> I think there are a number of factors to take into consideration for

> plant-based

> fuels such as biogas (formerly called "methane") and ethanol.

>

> 1. Is the fuel crop displacing a human food or animal feed crop?

 

Hybrid poplars can be grown on steep nontillable land.

 

>

>

> 2. Does the fuel crop predispose the soil to erosion? This seems to be true

> for corn used for ethanol.

>

 

HP are a permaculture.

 

> 3. Does the fuel crop deplete the soil by sucking nutrients out of it which

> are

> not replaced?

 

I can'/t specifically speak about poplars, but in general trees are not

considered

depleters. I can show you some that are thriving in virtually no soil where

they

were planted after the bulldozers had screwed up everything.

 

> 4. What does it involve to set up the technology to produce the fuel from

the

> plant source? Is the technology feasible? Is it affordable? Is it

dangerous?

> (danger is often a big consideration in producing fuels)

 

Alcohol production is traditionally associated with low tech peoples. The

image

of the grass chewing hillbilly leaning on his still comes easily to mind.

 

>

>

> 5. Aside from the techology, will the plant fuel itself be affordable?

 

Don't exactly understand the question. small scale alcohol production is

mostly

sweat equity and some sweetner.

 

>

>

> 6. Can the fuel be used with current engines? As I understand it, ethanol

> burns at a hotter temperature than normal gasoline, and can ruin engines not

> designed for it.

 

That is 200 proof. The lower proofs have water in them that vaporises and

absorbs

the heat. The anhydrous alcohol is only necessary if combining it with

gasoline.

But this is dated info, so maybe somebody knows something better from longer

term

experience.

 

>

>

> 7. Will the research and development of plant-based fuels, divert time and

> funding away from developing various animal traction - specifically, ox-power

> projects - thus reducing a community's commitment to cow protection.

 

Always a good point.

 

>

>

> 8. Will using a plant-based fuel push the community more in the direction of

> simple living or will it push it to another form of dependence on ugra-karma

> technology?

 

Same point - it is easy to see it as clinging to a lifestyle that might need to

be

let go.

 

It is more in the category of a transitional phase of lifestyle.

[Guest guest]

COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA) wrote:

 

> [Text 2069343 from COM]

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

> ************************************

>

> I think there are a number of factors to take into consideration for

> plant-based

> fuels such as biogas (formerly called "methane") and ethanol.

>

> 1. Is the fuel crop displacing a human food or animal feed crop?

 

Hybrid poplars can be grown on steep nontillable land.

 

>

>

> 2. Does the fuel crop predispose the soil to erosion? This seems to be true

> for corn used for ethanol.

>

 

HP are a permaculture.

 

> 3. Does the fuel crop deplete the soil by sucking nutrients out of it which

> are

> not replaced?

 

I can'/t specifically speak about poplars, but in general trees are not

considered

depleters. I can show you some that are thriving in virtually no soil where

they

were planted after the bulldozers had screwed up everything.

 

> 4. What does it involve to set up the technology to produce the fuel from

the

> plant source? Is the technology feasible? Is it affordable? Is it

dangerous?

> (danger is often a big consideration in producing fuels)

 

Alcohol production is traditionally associated with low tech peoples. The

image

of the grass chewing hillbilly leaning on his still comes easily to mind.

 

>

>

> 5. Aside from the techology, will the plant fuel itself be affordable?

 

Don't exactly understand the question. small scale alcohol production is

mostly

sweat equity and some sweetner.

 

>

>

> 6. Can the fuel be used with current engines? As I understand it, ethanol

> burns at a hotter temperature than normal gasoline, and can ruin engines not

> designed for it.

 

That is 200 proof. The lower proofs have water in them that vaporises and

absorbs

the heat. The anhydrous alcohol is only necessary if combining it with

gasoline.

But this is dated info, so maybe somebody knows something better from longer

term

experience.

 

>

>

> 7. Will the research and development of plant-based fuels, divert time and

> funding away from developing various animal traction - specifically, ox-power

> projects - thus reducing a community's commitment to cow protection.

 

Always a good point.

 

>

>

> 8. Will using a plant-based fuel push the community more in the direction of

> simple living or will it push it to another form of dependence on ugra-karma

> technology?

 

Same point - it is easy to see it as clinging to a lifestyle that might need to

be

let go.

 

It is more in the category of a transitional phase of lifestyle.