Guest guest Posted December 13, 1998 Report Share Posted December 13, 1998 > > > > > > If you still think sticking to the vedic principles is not enough, and I > > am simply following some politically motivated ideal, (you have a right to > > your opinion), then it is simply a waste of my valuable time to continuing > > indulging in maeaningful discussion with you. > > > (you meant "meaningless discussion" not "meaningful", I suppose) > It is amusing to see the pattern of misstatements in this discussion. Could it be adi daivic? > Since when it is the *vedic principle* that those whose > occupational duty is to give the protection, that in the > case of the protection falure they put the blame on the > dependents?? > > > I hope we can engage in honest, frank, and heart to heart dialog that can > > really be helpful to all members of Iskcon. > > I appreciate your "challenge". I accept. Let's do it. > > So as I may understand, you, Isvara das, are the proponent > of sticking to the vedic principles (please correct me if I > am wrong). And you are for "honest, frank, and heart to heart" > dialog, right. OK. Please let us know just one thing about > your good self. What is your *varna*? I am asking you the most > possible simple question that may exist and that have gotten > something to do with the "varnasrama-dharma" idea and to the > "sticking to the vedic principles". > > Then I might surprise you pleasantly with my ability to > quote sastra in term of sticking to the vedic principles > as prescribed for your varna & asrama, in accordance to > your own conclusion: > > But as long > > as we are conditioned, the principles must be followed. Endless > > speculations about the duties are will not help, as long as we think the > > vedic rules and regulations are outdated, and needs to be modified to suit > > our western mentality. > > So we seem to be sharing the same interest, so please stay with > us, we are just about to get to the actual issue, STICKING TO > THE VEDIC PRINCIPLES. > > So, first, what your varna is? > > ys mnd > > PS. > > > I can say to you that myself and some male devotees who are strongly > > advocating traditional roles of women according to Vedic principles are > > all married men. > > Do you think that me and some others who "give" the right to > women (actually, not Mahanidhi or XYZ or ABC, but PRABHUPADA > gives them that right) not to necessarily be obliged to act in the > traditional Vedic women roles are something else than married men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1998 Report Share Posted December 13, 1998 > Woman reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you? > Prabhupda: It is not the question of inferior or superior. Different. > Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your calculation. But the > bodily features are different. That is material. But spiritually, they > are all one. Materially... Just like your bodily feature and a man s > bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of inferior, superior, > that is your calculation. But we say that by nature, a woman and man is > different. > So if we put a lot of stock in this quote ( repeating it and building a social paradigm around it) that women are inferior it means we would be accepting a dichotomy put forth by a feminist? Wouldn't that mean we were thinking under the influence of a feminist? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1998 Report Share Posted December 13, 1998 > So, first, what your varna is? If you are interested about my varna. My varna is Krishna-varna. As far as my response to the rest of your text, then please read Jivan Mukta Prabhu's text. That gives more light to what I have been saying. In the meanwhile I am busy compiling and publishing gaudiya vaisnava acaryas granthas. If you are interested about that, we can talk about it, not about how Iskcon should encourage and protect single motherhood. Ys, Isvara Dasa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1998 Report Share Posted December 13, 1998 > >"since both the boys and girls are being trained to become preachers, > >those girls are not ordinary girls but are as good as their brothers who > >are preaching Krishna consciousness." (Cc Adi 7.31-32) > > Too bad you left out his qualifying statement just before the section you > quoted: > > "But these rascals should consider that one cannot suddenly change a > community's social customs." > > You cannot suddenly change their nasty customs, but change they must. (Note to the reader: Here it goes for Jivan Mukta's misinterpratation of Prabhupada's words "a community's social customs" into JM's "their nasty customs". Nasty, indeed. And Prabhupada's "these rascals" JMD translates as "you". Nasty, nasty..) Jivan Mukta, here is more of it: "Sometimes jealous persons criticize Krsna consciousness movement because it engages equally both boys and girls in distributing love of Godhead. Not knowing that boys and girls in countries like Europe and America mix freely, these fools and rascals criticize the boys and girls in Krsna consciousness for intermingling. But these rascals should consider that one cannot suddenly change a community's social customs." *Fools and rascals*, Jivan Mukta prabhu. *Jealous persons*. Now you and some of your GHQ-ies go on criticizing from the top of your lungs this Krsna consciousness movement for engaging equally both boys and girls, and for the un-Vedic "intermingling". Go on with your "hammering" the radical and drastic change of the customs that are prevalent for this part of the world. You at least might find out in which category you rather fit in. "Pro-Vedic" or.... read the quote once again. Too good that you did not leave out that sentence of Srila Prabhupada that he points his finger on **rascals** and not on (sic!) "their nasty customs". The nastiness was demonstrated by your manipulation of Srila Prabhupada's intention to tell us one thing, having you stepping in to divert it to have totally another impact. The impact that will suite to your "brain program". And for that you are continuing to unscrupulously exploit and twist Srila Prabhupada's statements, by hook or crook. ys mnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1998 Report Share Posted December 13, 1998 >> Too bad you left out his qualifying statement just before the section you >> quoted: >> >> "But these rascals should consider that one cannot suddenly change a >> community's social customs." >> >> You cannot suddenly change their nasty customs, but change they must. > >(Note to the reader: Here it goes for Jivan Mukta's >misinterpratation of Prabhupada's words "a community's >social customs" into JM's "their nasty customs". Nasty, >indeed. And Prabhupada's "these rascals" JMD translates >as "you". Nasty, nasty..) If it's not Vedic it is nasty. >"Sometimes jealous persons criticize Krsna consciousness >movement because it engages equally both boys and girls >in distributing love of Godhead. Not knowing that boys and >girls in countries like Europe and America mix freely, >these fools and rascals criticize the boys and girls in >Krsna consciousness for intermingling. But these rascals >should consider that one cannot suddenly change a community's >social customs." > > >*Fools and rascals*, Jivan Mukta prabhu. *Jealous >persons*. No one has ever said that some concessions have and must continue to be made. But for whom? For newcomers, not for 30 year devotees and certainly not for our children. >Now you and some of your GHQ-ies go on criticizing from >the top of your lungs this Krsna consciousness movement >for engaging equally both boys and girls, and for the un-Vedic >"intermingling". Go on with your "hammering" the radical and >drastic change of the customs that are prevalent for this part >of the world. No one is criticizing Prabhupada. The criticism is to those who want to do what Prabhupada did not sanction. The criticism is towards those who say that we should not only mainain the nasty social customs of these boys and girls but we should adopt them and enshrine them as ISKCON Law. Now that is bogus. Ys. JMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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