love and hate (RE: not my ...)

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HARE KRISNA!

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see *some* women as mother?

Author: "COM: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick; Maine - USA)"

<Hare.Krsna.dasi (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> at NETMAIL

12/02/99 12:46

 

 

[Text 2092617 from COM]

>Here are a couple more perspectives. The fact of society is that whether we

speak

of an Eastern culture or a Western culture, there seems to be a natural

tendency

to regard women as inferior to men. For one thing, most women are not as

strong

as most men. But this tendency to regard women as inferior leads to a lack of

respect for women which in turn sets the scene for 1) Oppression of women, 2)

Exploitation of women in terms of labor, etc., 3) Sexual exploitation.<

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I'd like to comment on this a little bit. There's an obvious lack of

understanding of the male and female roles in today's society and our

movement. It is a fact that we've grown up in times where everything

is mixed and confused. So, dependable on circumstances under which we

grew up ( whether village environment, city or major city environment

) we acquired certain bad and good qualities. Furthermore, we as

devotees ought to understand that whole this world is directed toward

pleasing the senses. The whole blazing environment is made for

pleasure of Dr.mind, and it's completely logical that people who are

the children of such a civilization have very strange propensities.

So, we've got the situation where men in this age are unscrupulous

rough and, when they see a woman, they see an object for fulfillment

of their sexual desire. For them, it is not important is she

intelligent, capable for certain position, educated, etc., they just

watch is she good looking.

On the other side of scale, there are women, also children of this age

who are far, far away from the qualities considered to be female. In

Srimad Bh.G. Lord Krishna explains the nice qualities belonging to

women and Srila Prabhupada comments, that, if a lady has one or more

of these qualities, she's famous! Let's say, two of those are

intelligence and polite talk.

>Let's forget about what this does to the women for a moment. What does it do

to

the men? It gives them a feeling of superiority which reinforces their

identification with the body. It reinforces a mentality of controller-ship

rather

than a mentality of service. It reinforces the natural tendency towards lust.

Well, reinforced bodily identification, seeing oneself as the controller, and

cultivating lusty desires are all handicaps in our efforts for spiritual

advancement.<

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Excellent point for discussion! Now we come to do point of our

education

( according to environment and parents ) and mixing the two environments.

First,

we are trying to become devotees of the Lord. That means we have to change our

conception of life. That would include to abandon the habits that are common in

 

materialistic world. Some of those are considering the women to be lower

species

of life " macho syndrome " and Feminist theory. We want none of those in our

society, since it's obvious, it can't help us realize our original position as

spirit soul but just help us to stay in bodily concept of life. I'll give one

practical example of what happens when a person has "macho" mentality. I have a

 

friend who is an initiated devotee, who is coming from a smaller town in Bosnia

 

and is the only child of his parents Also one period of his devotional life he

was living in Germany where he received his brahmacary training. When he came

back here he realized he want's to get married, and to find a wife he used the

education that he had about the women. So, at first time he thought it's best

to

be rough and "firm", a real man with women 'cause "they love that". Than he

tried to control them completely setting up precise instructions they need to

follow, and was very less gentle toward them. And all the time he just wanted

himself to be pleased, without concerning the other side. Definitely it's also

up to his roots, since he was educated that he's the only son and therefore he

has to get everything only for himself. I can tall you, he's still not married.

 

But he realized that he should change his behavior from tyranny to democracy

approach My personal experience is that when a man is performing all his duties

 

in Krisna Consciousness(I think of marital duties) nicely, he respects his wife

 

as a devotee, sets a good example, and is "a real man" when it's needed, not

just his wife, but all other ladies will respect him and will want to be

"inferior" to such a husband. Why? Because he is not unnecessarily puffed up

with materialistic concepts, he's a gentleman without being disturbed with

lady's presence and has a sincere desire to at last become free from material

concepts.

>And what this women-inferior mentality do to the women? It can lead to anger

or

more often feelings of self-disgust and self-hatred. This is not to be

mistaken

for humility. Rather, it is a different way of reinforcing identity with the

body. It can lead to society being organized in such a way that there is no

provision made for women to take time for activities which promote spiritual

advancement (in a society like ours -- chanting japa, attending kirtans and

Bhagavatam classes), and it reinforces ones identification as an object of sex.

 

None of these things is favorable to spiritual advancement.<

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Thank you for bringing that point up. The problem is when we say that woman

should be submissive, we again mix it with material view. If men are with

abusive thoughts in this world, it's dangerous for a woman to be submissive,

because women today are forced to protect them selves. Otherwise, they are in

danger. But again, that doesn't have to do anything with our wonderful Krisna

Consciousness. I can tell you that my wife is lacing my shoe strings to me and

she's very happy she can do it. But, I had to pay a price, I had to become

responsible, loving, supportive and serious about that stuff. She would never

do

that before if I'd would have tried to forcefully set up the principles.

Everyone of us has to understand his position and its requirements. It is

completely natural that woman will entrust her life, and she'll be submissive

to

a man who is qualified and is responding. It is the mutual thing. Mutual effort

 

in going back to godhead. We should not think that we can do things alone. No

way ! At every time we are dependent Dependent on the mercy of devotees. And

hence when we are married, it's even more evident, because that devotee that we

 

live with is first next to us. So, my personal opinion and experience is, let's

 

leave our false identification and get on to the job, 'cause time's short and

anarthas many. Let's get serious and we won't have problems with thinking

"woman

are inferior" or "men are slave drivers". This only a part of what can be said

on this topic, but this already took too much space. I hope this finds you all

in good health,

 

Your humble servant

Bh. Muhamed - Sarajevo(B&H)