Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 > > > Bg 2.31 P ORIGINAL: > ..Discharging one's specific duty in any field of action in accordance with > varnasrama-dharma serves to elevate one to a higher status of life. > > Bg 2.31 P REVISED & ENLARGED: > ..Discharging one's specific duty in any field of action in accordance with > the orders of higher authorities serves to elevate one to a higher status of > life. That is a pretty dramatic change. I would be interesting in hearing the rationale behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 > Maybe I'm just a fanatic about VAD, but changes to Srila Prabhupada's > books like the following give me little hope that ISKCON is really > interested in moving toward fulfilling Srila Prabhupada's orders to > implement varnasrama-dharma. Personally, I would be scared to death to > make such changes without Srila Prabhupada's personal review and approval. > Of course, I'm not a pure devotee like..... > > Bg 2.31 P ORIGINAL: > ..Discharging one's specific duty in any field of action in accordance > with varnasrama-dharma serves to elevate one to a higher status of life. > > > Bg 2.31 P REVISED & ENLARGED: > ..Discharging one's specific duty in any field of action in accordance > with the orders of higher authorities serves to elevate one to a higher > status of life. What !!?? Who authorized that one??? Must be one of the "higher authorities"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 > > Bg 2.31 P ORIGINAL: > > ..Discharging one's specific duty in any field of action in accordance > > with varnasrama-dharma serves to elevate one to a higher status of life. > > > > Bg 2.31 P REVISED & ENLARGED: > > ..Discharging one's specific duty in any field of action in accordance > > with the orders of higher authorities serves to elevate one to a higher > > status of life. > > That is a pretty dramatic change. I would be interesting in hearing the > rationale behind it. I forwarded this to Jayadvaita Swami, who recently started a conference called Gita Revisions, on which he explains these things. Please join the conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 On 11 Mar 1999, Tattvavit das wrote: > I forwarded this to Jayadvaita Swami, who recently started a conference > called Gita Revisions, on which he explains these things. Please join the > conference. I am afraid to "join" such a conference. To try to justify such changes can only be a very unnecessary entanglement in mental speculation. The books were fine as they were when Srila Prabhupada was present. IF there were additional changes that Srila Prabhupada MAY have approved before he left but Jayadvaita did not get a chance to get them approved by Srila Prabhupada personally, well that's tough luck. We have to accept Krsna's plan that He directed Srila Prabhupada to make the necessary changes to the books while he was present and after that we accept what he gave us as "perfect" enough for us and everyone else for the next 10,000 years. It can only be impertinence to think that they are making changes assuming Srila Prabhupada would have approved of them when they know he disapproved of many changes they previously thought were proper changes. Are they speaking to Srila Prabhupada secretly without our knowledge? The only discussion should be an apology to Srila Prabhupada and stopping all changes and recalling all changed books. They are Srila Prabhupada's books - leave his things alone! If they don't like the way they were on the day Srila Prabhupada left the planet, too bad. I like them just fine as they are. If they want to write their own Bhagavad-gita and other books that's fine. Leave it to the general public and devotees to choose which books they will read. But to change someone elses books without their personal permission and approval is downright rude and obnoxious. Jayadvaita should be knocked on the head with his own danda. Maybe he will wake up from this nightmare. After these changes, the Bhagavad-gita "As It Is" by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami is no longer "As It Is". I am not saying that Jayadvaita and Dravida have nothing of value to say or that they are not learned in philosophy. They may be able to write very nice Krsna conscious books of their own. I've known them for 25 years and I always liked both of them very much. But if they want to make changes they HAVE to write their own books and put their name on them - not A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's. This cannot be allowed. There is simply no honor in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 Janesvara Prabhu's reply (at the very bottom) is a long sermon, but he is unwilling to admit any ignorance. Thoreau said: "How can we remember our ignorance, which our growth requires, when we are using our knowledge all the time?" Tattvavit wrote: > Jayadvaita Swami started a conference called Gita Revisions, on which he explains the changes. Please join the conference.< Janesvara replied: > I am afraid to "join" such a conference. To try to justify such changes can only be a very unnecessary entanglement in mental speculation . . .< etc. etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 At 5:47 -0800 3/11/99, WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA) wrote: >After these changes, the Bhagavad-gita "As It Is" by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami >is no longer "As It Is". I am not saying that Jayadvaita and Dravida have >nothing of value to say or that they are not learned in philosophy. They may >be able to write very nice Krsna conscious books of their own. I've known them >for 25 years and I always liked both of them very much. But if they want to >make changes they HAVE to write their own books and put their name on them - >not A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's. This cannot be allowed. There is simply no >honor in it. I agree that the changes you just posted seem drastic and I'm really curious to hear what Jayadvaita Swami will say to explain why they were made. Until then, I reserve judgment. However, there are other changes I've read about, which made perfect sense to me, e.g. when the original eidtion contained errors by the transcriptionist that were discovered. In those cases, Prabhupada's words were actually *restored*. So it's not a question of Jayadvaita Swami or Dravida Prabhu writing their own books in Prabhupada's name. Can't we make a distinction between changes that are purely technical (e.g. due to mishearings of tapes, transcription errors ...) and changes that involved subjective judgments and actually changing Prabhupada's words? I'd like to know what proportion are of each variety. I have absolutely no problem with the former kind, but would be much more concerned about the latter one. Prabhupada wanted his books to be the law books for humanity for a very long time. It seems like a nice service to make them as authentic and technically correct as possible. I don't think the fact that Prabhupada didn't complain about all the errors while he was here is a valid argument for keeping them. Thinking about the enormous volume of books he produced in a very short time (what to speak of all of the other things he did), some errors were bound to slip through. I don't see why that means they have to remain for all times though. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 On 11 Mar 1999, Tattvavit das wrote: > Janesvara Prabhu's reply (at the very bottom) is a long sermon, but > he is unwilling to admit any ignorance. I'll admit to all the ignorance you want me to. I am not very intelligent. I struggle to remember Krsna throughout the day. But I am trying! I could not make any edits or changes to Srila Prabhupada's books except maybe some spelling errors which I have seen in them over the years. I am not an English major or anything. Srila Prabhupada accepted Jayadvaita's service in editing the books which I fully accept and this is a nice service just like the pot washers in the temple or any other good bhakta service. It's all preaching. I simply do not see what this has to do with the subject. Could you please answer me the one simple question: If Srila Prabhupada disallowed certain changes that the editors proposed before he left the planet, and they were thinking that those changes were perfectly acceptable based on their level of knowledge, how can they make changes now which cannot be proposed to Srila Prabhupada for his approval? And, how can they know that Srila Prabhupada would accept those changes??? It is clearly impossible!! I have no problem with Jayadvaita writing his own Bhagavad-gita. Why is this not an agreeable alternative? He can include every change that he wants in his own version - Bhagavad-gita As It Is According to Jayadvaita Swami. It could be helpful to certain Scholars and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 On 11 Mar 1999, Tattvavit das wrote: > Janesvara Prabhu's reply (at the very bottom) is a long sermon, but he is unwilling to admit any ignorance. Thoreau said: "How can we remember our ignorance, which our growth requires, when we are using our knowledge all the time?" > > Tattvavit wrote: > Jayadvaita Swami started a conference called Gita Revisions, on which he explains the changes. Please join the conference. I recently suggested to Jayadvaita Swami that the BBT seriously consider printing a book that outlines the text as published during Srila Prabhupada's physical presence presented side by side with the editted version currently in use. Then there could be an explanation by the BBT outlining the rational behind the edit. Srila Prabhapada did something similar when offering word for word explanations on practically every Sanskrit and Bengali verse he translated. He took the effort to present such things to his readers in an easily accessable academically transparent manner. Possibly the Gita revisions conference is an attempt in that direction. In my opinion, without such a book (which, by the way, could be used as a tool for training future editors), we too easily resort to name calling over who is the real upholder of the correct vision of what Srila Prabhupada actually meant to say, with whoever appears to have administrative control of the BBTI declaring himself the winner. Thus we invite another excuse for present and future conflicts. ISKCON finds itself needing to spend way too much energy defending something which could simply be the outgrowth of an incomplete presentation of this important service. Appearing aloof from this ongoing problem has not made it disappear, and I am sure the editors wish to feel the devotees are satisfied by their service. ys, Sthita-dhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 1999 Report Share Posted March 11, 1999 On 11 Mar 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote: > I agree that the changes you just posted seem drastic and I'm really > curious to hear what Jayadvaita Swami will say to explain why they were > made. Until then, I reserve judgment. Oh sure, be patient and nice and make me look like a putz!! ;-) > However, there are other changes > I've read about, which made perfect sense to me, e.g. when the original > eidtion contained errors by the transcriptionist that were discovered. In > those cases, Prabhupada's words were actually *restored*. So it's not a > question of Jayadvaita Swami or Dravida Prabhu writing their own books in > Prabhupada's name. Maybe it's just my simpleton mind, but the whole thing just seems to deny the true and exact "picture" of how Krsna wanted Srila Prabhupada's books to be. Srila Prabhupada's transcendental "karma" or pastimes created the books in a certain way that have been read by thousands, millions?, of people with incredible results. I don't believe Harvard's Professor Cox ever mentioned that they are nice books but should be cleaned up a little. There are so many quotes from Srila Prabhupada about not changing a thing in HIS books UNLESS he approves of the changes. He simply cannot make those approvals now and that was Krsna's choice of taking him from here and leaving his books as they were - even full of little "errors". I think Krsna in His divine wisdom could have kept Srila Prabhupada here a little longer if He really felt it necessary to make additional changes to the books. If Srila Prabhupada were present right now would the editors make changes to the books and publish them without Srila Prabhupada's approval? > > Can't we make a distinction between changes that are purely technical (e.g. > due to mishearings of tapes, transcription errors ...) and changes that > involved subjective judgments and actually changing Prabhupada's words? I'd > like to know what proportion are of each variety. I have absolutely no > problem with the former kind, but would be much more concerned about the > latter one. The problem is that those who have assumed this role of editing, post-Prabhupada's-right-to-approval, have made some of these "latter" kind of changes which, with all due respect, creates some suspicions as to their intentions or, maybe more acurately, their level of realization. It is not that they are not devotees/disciples but everyone must admit we are talking about very, very holy ground here - The Books! > > Prabhupada wanted his books to be the law books for humanity for a very > long time. It seems like a nice service to make them as authentic and > technically correct as possible. When he left the planet did he say to finish/continue editing his books? No. The only thing he said was "unfinished" was his desire to implement varnasrama-dharma. Let's stop wasting time on anything else and try to spend the majority of our time trying to fulfill this advice. The books have certainly "worked" fine for thousands of disciples just As They Are. >I don't think the fact that Prabhupada > didn't complain about all the errors while he was here is a valid argument > for keeping them. Thinking about the enormous volume of books he produced > in a very short time (what to speak of all of the other things he did), > some errors were bound to slip through. I don't see why that means they > have to remain for all times though. Fine. But let them write their OWN versions of Bhagavad-gita and the other books and they can tell everyone what changes they made and why. This is the only honorable thing to do when Srila Prabhupada cannot be here to defend himself from things that he had to stop previously. If you asked Srila Prabhupada if he is worried about what "people" will think of him and his movement with his books left the way they were before any unauthorized changes were made, what do you think he would say? Honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 On 13 Mar 1999, Tattvavit das wrote: > > If Srila Prabhupada disallowed certain changes that the editors proposed before he left the planet, and they were thinking that those changes were perfectly acceptable based on their level of knowledge, how can they make changes now which cannot be proposed to Srila Prabhupada for his approval? > > > > What I suggest is that you get a copy of the recently printed brochure > called "Responsible Publishing" and see what they're actually doing. Then you will have a better standpoint from which to comment on their work. One problem with certain 'defense' tactics is an attitude that might be perceived as being almost smug, to the point of suggesting that to raise a concern about editorial policy elects one to being criticised for being in maya, or at least a spiritual nincompoop (sp?). I remember at one point in "Responsible Publishing" Dravida says something along the lines of being grateful for Jayadvaita Swami's mercy -- I should get the exact quote. It was almost like to be concerned showed a lack of appreciation. I think the quality of the edits stand quite well on their own simply on grammatical and sanskrit related terms. It is not that the readers of Srila Prabhupada's Gita need to first enter into a siksa relationship with the BBT editors. ys, Sthita-'dhuh'-muni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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