Current Discussion

April 13, 1999

>

> To all devotee's taking part in current discussion(kosovo),

>

> pamho agtsp,

>

> I'm only a new bhakta so please accept my apologies if you think i'm

> overstepping the mark,it's just that i feel a conference called "Varnasrama

> Development" should contain inteligent discussion on the afore mentioned

> subject,instead of a materialistic discussion on the political situation in

> Kosovo.Personally i feel that as devotee's we should be above these types of

> discussion's and should be focusing on more important issues like "ALWAYS

> REMEMBERING KRSNA AND NEVER FORGETTING HIM" but at least if you feel this

> topic is so important that it just has to be discussed you could at least

> discuss it in the appropriate conference(Global Free Forum).

>

> Always your aspiring humble servant

>

> BH Scott

> (Text 54) -----------------

So, a candidate for moderator!

Dear Bhakta,

This is the line so oft quoted by Kirtanananda Swami and used so efectively to

steer discussions to the Absolute when they would have otherwise become a

little

uncomfortable to him. As a bhakta, perhaps you don't know who Kirtanananda,

aka Bhaktipada, is.

He was the first disciple of Srila Prabhupada to move with in with him and

actually start cooking for Srila Prabhupada instead of just letting Srila

Prabhupada cook for him. He was the first and only sannyasa in ISKCON for 3

years. He founded and developed the New Vrindaban community which at one time

was externally very successful with over 600 devotees living there.

He was a paragaon of sadhana who was always in the temple at 2:30 am and

chanted

all his rounds before mangala arotik. As an alumni of the Columbia University

debating team, he was an eloquent and educated adeptee with the philosophy of

Krsna consciousness. All problems could be solved by chanting Hare Krsna and

ignoring the material energy.

Well, I am sure you will have no difficulty finding a detractor of him to fill

you in on the details of his career, but none of that is necesssary for you at

this time. Suffice it to say that he is serving a 12 year prison term and

deserves to be where he is. Krsna has made a special arrangement for him to

get

the type of circumstance he needs at this particular time of his life to have

the opportunity for continued advancement, especially in the area of humility.

So too with all of us we need particular opportunities for us at particular

times in order to progress. Chanting and remembering Krsna is always there

for everyone at all times, that is a Truth. But we do also have a material

body that has requirements.

At a certain stage, known especially in VAD as part of the brahmacary stage,

it is extremely beneficial to perform austerities of a certain type, and to

withdraw our senses from any contact with the external society and bathe our

intellect in a pure form of study and meditation on the Holy Name.

Even in this state, it is still required to be clothed, eat, have shelter,

etc, albeit in a very simple manner. Yet to fully concentrate, society

provides those needs for the brahmacary so he needn't be distracted. and can

concentrate fully on his education. Which means on the flip side of course

that

someone else must be involved in the process of producing those material

requirements.

The goal of a Krsna conscious education is not to become a fulltime student.

It

is to learn how to become Krsna conscious and eventually to function in the

world. So at different stages what is an appropriate discussion for some may

very well not be an appropriate discussion for others. If you are in the

immersion stage of your Krsna conscious development, then discussions of

Kosovo may well be inappropriate for you. As such, it behooves you to simply

hit the delete key. For others, who have a desire to actually establish a VAD

society, it is necessary to be aware of how the material world works and to

grapple with how to start the growth of such a society within the matrix of

the

larger material society. For them, a discussion of Kosovo may be of

importance.

The point you were making may be seen in

TRANSLATION

Those who engage in the culture of nescient activities shall enter into the

darkest region of ignorance. Worse still are those engaged in the culture of

so-called knowledge.

PURPORT

This mantra offers a comparative study of vidya and avidya. Avidya, or

ignorance, is undoubtedly dangerous, but vidya, or knowledge, is even more

dangerous when mistaken or misguided. This mantra of Sri Isopanisad is more

applicable today than at any time in the past. Modern civilization has advanced

considerably in the field of mass education, but the result is that people are

more unhappy than ever before because of the stress placed on material

advancement to the exclusion of the most important part of life, the spiritual

aspect.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Iso 9

Please note that when the study of material advancement is done exclusionery of

the spiritual aspect, that is what is dangerous.

TRANSLATION

Only one who can learn the process of nescience and that of transcendental

knowledge side by side can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death

and enjoy the full blessings of immortality.

PURPORT

......This does not mean that all activities for the maintenance of the body

should be stopped. There is no question of stopping activities, just as there

is

no question of wiping out one's temperature altogether when trying to recover

from a disease. "To make the best use of a bad bargain" is the appropriate

expression. The culture of spiritual knowledge necessitates the help of the

body

and mind; therefore maintenance of the body and mind is required if we are to

reach our goal. The normal temperature should be maintained at 98.6 degrees,

and

the great sages and saints of India have attempted to do this by a balanced

program of spiritual and material knowledge. They never allow the misuse of

human intelligence for diseased sense gratification.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Iso 11

April 13, 1999

> >

> > I'm only a new bhakta so please accept my apologies if you think i'm

> > overstepping the mark,it's just that i feel a conference called

"Varnasrama Development" should contain inteligent discussion on the afore

mentioned subject....

> >

> >Always your aspiring humble servant

> >

> > BH Scott

> >

>

> So, a candidate for moderator!

>

I second the nomination! I am assuming we are nominating a Bhakta, and not a

Bhaktin. These days, it is good to be clear on this kind of stuff in advance.

Regarding worldly events such as is currrent in Kosova, I would propose there

is some value in discussing them on the Varnasrama conference. To a very real

degree, Varnasrama culture is designed to engage more worldly propensities

other than those the brahmans might otherwise deal with in everyday temple

ashram life. So in that sense, there might be some relative value.

The world we are currently living in is our prabhu-datta-desa.

April 13, 1999

> I second the nomination! I am assuming we are nominating a Bhakta, and not

> a Bhaktin. These days, it is good to be clear on this kind of stuff in

> advance.

>

> Regarding worldly events such as is currrent in Kosova, I would propose

> there is some value in discussing them on the Varnasrama conference. To a

> very real degree, Varnasrama culture is designed to engage more worldly

> propensities other than those the brahmans might otherwise deal with in

> everyday temple ashram life. So in that sense, there might be some

> relative value.

I also think that this conferance is a conferance which is open for

discussing many issues, and as long as they don't go completely out of hand,

they could be allowed to go on, as long as there obviously are a lot of

people participating in the discussions.

I actually find it quite interesting to have a discussion between devotees

about this war in regards to how it looks from people's point of view who

are living in different countries. And so far, the discussion has after all

been more or less civilized, which in itself is pretty impressive.

April 14, 1999

> I also think that this conferance is a conferance which is open for

> discussing many issues, and as long as they don't go completely out of

> hand, they could be allowed to go on, as long as there obviously are a lot

> of people participating in the discussions.

>

> I actually find it quite interesting to have a discussion between devotees

> about this war in regards to how it looks from people's point of view who

> are living in different countries. And so far, the discussion has after

> all been more or less civilized, which in itself is pretty impressive.

I also agree with this, as long as it doesn't get out of hand, but it also

crossed my mind that we could have a Varnasrama 'chat' conference also, that

those who are interested in related topics could log into. After all as has

been pointed out, varnasrama is not strictly a spiritual program, but daivi

varnasrama, is a means to raise us from the Rajas to a more sattvik life, so

we can eventualy make the jump to pure goodness or Suddha satva.

So I appreciate Bhakta Scott's concern (I hope you are well Scott), we could

easily get into all sorts of material topics, which can be loosely related

to varnasrama, but not really very helpful. I think we all agree that

varnasrama is the process that can save this movement, so I would like to

see concrete proposals for how we can actualy do that starting with what we

have right now.

Is anyone in a position to influence a temple authority into starting a

varnasrama college? Lets make plans as to how to get eh propaganda out

there, so more and more devotees become aware of starting such colleges, and

how varnasrama IS the solution. Many devotees are completely unaware of

this.

So while these discussions have their place, maybe a related conference

would help? The trouble might be that we all end up on that conference, and

this one stagnates.

Anyway its an idea.

YS Samba das

April 14, 1999