Call Off The Dogs!

[Guest guest]

> One thing this "gender" change has done for Prsni is given him an active

> tongue. I've never seen so many posts from him. Does that come with being

> a woman? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

I think the least we can do is to accept that Prsni is now a woman, and not

go on calling her a man, even if it may feel strange for some. I think it is

important to respect the fact that she is now existing in a female, not a

male body.

 

> Personally, while I am sure you have been going through a lot of heavy

> emotional and mental disturbances over this thing, I would recommend a

> little more humility and discretion.

 

To me, the reactions Prsni manifest may seem a bit defensive, but I find it

more or less impossible to explain the situation without being defensive

when one is more or less rediculed for doing something one is convinced is

the right thing to do.

 

I am very grateful that Prsni is taking her time to explain the whole matter

thoroughly for all of us who cannot really relate, even if she probably

feels quite hurt by many of us. I believe that she is doing both us and

herself and others in a similar situation as her a great favour by standing

forth like this, explaining how it looks from her side. I think we should

listen carefully, because this may be our first and only chance to get

first-hand experience on how this looks from someone who has actually

performed a sex-change, who was and is a devotee.

 

> It is sure to create a feeling of defensiveness in you, especially with

> ISKCON-type devotees who don't have much sympathy, but one has to admit

> one's weaknesses Srila Prabhupada said. You are stating so often that you

> do not understand why devotees are having a hard time understanding your

> choices in life. You seem to point a finger at them/us implying that we

> are saying we are self-realized and, if so, we should understand this

> thing easily. What seems to be also implied is that you are saying such

> things facetiously and this somehow means that actually we are fallen and

> ignorant and therefore we shouldn't point any fingers at you for your

> choices which may have been born from similar fallen nature?

 

>From the way Prsni explains herself, it does not seem like what she has done

is manifesting a weakness, I would more say it manifests her strength. The

fact that she has done this and is willing to discuss it with us, while

knowing that most of us would look down upon her for what she has done,

makes her get my respect.

 

> We are not self-realized, at least I'm not, and I'm not pointing any

> fingers at you. I have plenty of faults of my own. But that is the point,

> I HAVE FAULTS. I do not want to say that all of my choices were done for

> my spiritual advancement. Most of my choices are made to fulfill sense

> gratification of some sort or another. I won't kid myself. I love the

> choices I have made in regards to my Krsna conscious goals and personal

> righteous activities, but they still remain a minority of my daily mental

> habits, speculations, wants, bodily "pushings", etc. My better activities

> are gradually increasing, but I know damn well that the fire of material

> desire that I am trying to extinguish with the rain of mercy of Krsna

> consciousness only stays stronger as I keep throwing ghee on the fire in

> the form of material desires. But I can get on myself about it regularly

> and tell myself that these are not good things and I have to give them up.

> If I simply deny my problems I'll never deal with them. It keeps me from

> remembering Krsna which is what I love more than anything WHEN I do it.

 

I am in a similar situation as you, Janesh, as I guess we all are, including

Prsni. But I think that Prsni expects us to not compare the sex-change to

normal mental and bodily pushings, since she just wanted to have the right

body for her gender. She probably also has her mental and bodily pushings

like the rest of us, but that is a different point. Does that make sense?

 

> My mind gets agitated by sense objects very easily. I fulfill my desires

> in as a discreet and regulated way as possible for me in my present

> consciousness. The demands have diminished with age and devotional and

> varnasrama practice. But never will I expect anyone to call my weakness of

> heart anything but that. I hope they will forgive me and remain supportive

> of me like brothers and sisters, or lovers and beloved, or friends with

> friends. But my bad choices are mine and they will keep me out of the

> spiritual world for sure.

 

Sure. But I don't think this can be compared with Prsni's situation of

sex-change. I cannot say that I know, but my gut feeling tells me that

Prsni's sex-change will not keep her away from the spiritual world. Offenses

and material desires keep us in the material world, and I believe that is

different from this.

 

> You have made choices in your life. These choices have not always come

> from atma, but have come from the mind and senses. This is OK but one must

> admit this fact in order to be honest with one's self. And with honesty we

> will gradually rectify our situation and purify the mind which will

> improve in its choices, coming closer to the choices of the soul.

 

If Prsni is right, that she was born a woman captured in a man's body, then

I really have problems with understanding what you mean. What is the point

of trying to convince her that she has done a mistake, and thus should be

humble, if she is sure that this was the right thing to do? Why do you think

she did it? Because she thought it was the wrong thing to do? I at least

want to give her the chance to decide for herself what is the right thing to

do, since she knows herself slightly better than I do.

 

> I say the foregoing with love and care for a fellow member of our virtual

> varnasrama-dharma community. They are my opinions.

 

I know they are your opinions, and knowing you, I am sure you mean nothing

bad with anything you say. But I am not sure your perceptions are right in

this case.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> There are stories about sex changes in

> our books, but how they are accomplished is never explained. Mostly

> by *magic*. But many other common day-to-day activities was also

> accomplished by *magic*, in our books, so I don't find that too odd.

> Today it appears that everything has become much more troublesome.

 

Actually, if we want to be advanced in Krsna consciousness, it is our

duty to keep ourself dry from material wetness. That is our duty. Yesam

tv anta-gatam papam. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, especially two

things: visayinam sandarsanam atha yositam ca. Two things: woman and

money. If we become attracted... Woman means for man the woman is woman,

and for the woman the man is woman. Not that woman means a particular

class. Woman means which are enjoyable. So in this material world, the

man is enjoyable by the woman, and the woman is enjoyable by the man.

For both of them, visayinam sandarsanam atha yositam. Yosit means

enjoyable. This body is superfluous. The bodily structure, it can be

changed. Perhaps you know, now in medical science they can change the

woman's body into man's body, and the man's body into woman's body. It

was formerly being also changed. In Bhagavata you'll find that in a

garden -- I forget the name -- in a garden where Lord Siva was engaged

with Uma, husband and wife, all of a sudden many saintly persons entered

to see Lord Siva. At that time Uma, Parvati, became very much ashamed.

She was not very properly dressed. So immediately the saintly persons,

they left, that "Lord Siva is now in his private affairs." So Lord Siva,

to please Parvati, he immediately said, "Hence forward, anyone who will

enter this forest, he'll become woman." So one king, I forget the name,

with his party, without the knowledge he entered the forest, and all of

them became women.

So the idea is that the man's body can be transformed into woman's body,

and a woman's body can be transformed into man's body. Because we are

not this body, dress.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.11 -- Vrndavana, September

10, 1976