Guest guest Posted May 5, 1999 Report Share Posted May 5, 1999 Janesvara wrote > > No. His wealth was from working his devotee butt off. Perspiration. And > emplying thousands and thousands of others in the milk production > "business" or whatever name you want to give it. Nanda had a million cows! > Do you realize how many gallons of milk, pounds of butter, curd and yogurt > that is daily? Was he just throwing the milk on the ground? I doubt it. > How many residents of Vrindavana were there? Certainly not even close to > enough to consume tis amount of milk products. Wouldn't it seem common > sense that Nanda was serving his king faithfully and producing the milk > required by the inhabitants of the nearby cities who could not produce > milk in the city? And the king was assuring Nanda that all of his > necessities were taken care of and much more in the way of wealth? It was > a gigantic enterprise the likes of which we do not even see nowadays. A > MILLION cows! How many millions of acres of land were being managed? > Employees? Hard work every single day. > I agree certainly work for everybody. > Or do we not really believe this? > Here are some figures to ponder If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, and was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the hectare. If all the cows were milking then there were 900,000 calves plus, at 50% male birth rate, 900,000 bulls/bullocks this gives us 165 bovines per hectare. A fairly amazing level of carrying capacity of the land which has to be transendentally understood. The land we have in Kali yuga cannot sustain these levels of production so it is wrong to judge the present activities of the farms based on the descriptions in the Krsna book. Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8 refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels. I am sure that farm devotees all over the world are pondering or have pondered the difficulties of maintaining cows and models are being tried everywhere. In the future more answers will be available. I hope my mathematics is correct. Your servant, Gokula das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 1999 Report Share Posted May 5, 1999 On 04 May 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > I just want to avoid a voluntary poverty consciousness which sometimes is an > > excuse for laziness and space-out. > > There is also a lifestyle based on the artificial manipulation of paper and > electronic funds that breeds laziness and being spaced out that needs to be > avoided. Very good point. That is the other side of the same coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 1999 Report Share Posted May 5, 1999 On 04 May 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > I just want to avoid a voluntary poverty consciousness which sometimes is an > > excuse for laziness and space-out. > > There is also a lifestyle based on the artificial manipulation of paper and > electronic funds that breeds laziness and being spaced out that needs to be > avoided. Very good point. That is the other side of the same coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 1999 Report Share Posted May 5, 1999 Gokula das wrote: Here are some figures to ponder. If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, and was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the hectare. If all the cows were milking then there were 900,000 calves plus, at 50% male birth rate, 900,000 bulls/bullocks this gives us 165 bovines per hectare. Comment: Sounds abut right except the birth sex ratio, provided the Indian cows of today are working on the same principle as at the time of Krsna. In Zebu cows, which is what Krsna possessed by the description given, male births are generally 3 out of 4 or 75%. Making the bullock figure 675,000 and if the human population was as large as things indicate, a lot of food was being grown. If you are working a team of oxen (2) than that means 337,500 teamsters in the Vrndavan area. That is a lot of sweat. I can accept the figure of 165 bovines per hectare, after all the Lord and the goddess of fortune where walking there. We are not those personalities so we will not be so wealthy, not so many cows, jewels and the like. Still, we should be able to make our productive levels a little higher than the ugrafarmer of the petrochemical industry … provided we can manifest a little faith in the possiblities with Krsna on our side in this war. Why not 8 or 10 cows per hectare, if we follow proper agricultural practices (seen through the eyes of sastric principles) and utilize the results for glorification of Krsna. In the west this means growing sufficient foodstuffs to feed the devotees and people with in a ten mile radius (16 km) of our centres. Of course this means the disapearance of devotees having 5 acre yards (12 ha.) of weeds or lawns. They will have to obtain a team or two and work it up ……… oh no that means they are going tot have to sweat for Krsna, heaven forbid. >A fairly amazing level of carrying capacity of the land which has to be transendentally understood. The land we have in Kali yuga cannot sustain these levels of production so it is wrong to judge the present activities of the farms based on the descriptions in the Krsna book. Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8 refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels. Comment: In this regard there are four things to do, in order of importance; 1. Institute a strong practice of full sadhana for each individual resident of the community. Including harinam on at least a weekly basis if not daily. 2. Engage every living entity; human, animal and plant according to its propensity, in Lord Krsna’s service. No one should be idle, engaged in activities that do not glorify the Lord or in pursuance thereof. Everything and everyone has a function and should be used to their maximum extent. 3. Increase the fertility by composting (on the cropland) and introducing rapid rotational grazing (on the hay and pasture lands) along with a holistic form of agriculture. 4. Obtain more land, develop it agriculturally and ecologically so that the brahmanas have full facility. DO NOT BECOME A SUBURBIA PARK. Become a village where Krsna’s name rings throughout the leys … Gita Nagari. It is not just in Pennsylavia but at every ISKCON farm that Srila Prabhupada’s writing of that village apply. Ys, Rohita dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 1999 Report Share Posted May 5, 1999 Gokula das wrote: Here are some figures to ponder. If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, and was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the hectare. If all the cows were milking then there were 900,000 calves plus, at 50% male birth rate, 900,000 bulls/bullocks this gives us 165 bovines per hectare. Comment: Sounds abut right except the birth sex ratio, provided the Indian cows of today are working on the same principle as at the time of Krsna. In Zebu cows, which is what Krsna possessed by the description given, male births are generally 3 out of 4 or 75%. Making the bullock figure 675,000 and if the human population was as large as things indicate, a lot of food was being grown. If you are working a team of oxen (2) than that means 337,500 teamsters in the Vrndavan area. That is a lot of sweat. I can accept the figure of 165 bovines per hectare, after all the Lord and the goddess of fortune where walking there. We are not those personalities so we will not be so wealthy, not so many cows, jewels and the like. Still, we should be able to make our productive levels a little higher than the ugrafarmer of the petrochemical industry … provided we can manifest a little faith in the possiblities with Krsna on our side in this war. Why not 8 or 10 cows per hectare, if we follow proper agricultural practices (seen through the eyes of sastric principles) and utilize the results for glorification of Krsna. In the west this means growing sufficient foodstuffs to feed the devotees and people with in a ten mile radius (16 km) of our centres. Of course this means the disapearance of devotees having 5 acre yards (12 ha.) of weeds or lawns. They will have to obtain a team or two and work it up ……… oh no that means they are going tot have to sweat for Krsna, heaven forbid. >A fairly amazing level of carrying capacity of the land which has to be transendentally understood. The land we have in Kali yuga cannot sustain these levels of production so it is wrong to judge the present activities of the farms based on the descriptions in the Krsna book. Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8 refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels. Comment: In this regard there are four things to do, in order of importance; 1. Institute a strong practice of full sadhana for each individual resident of the community. Including harinam on at least a weekly basis if not daily. 2. Engage every living entity; human, animal and plant according to its propensity, in Lord Krsna’s service. No one should be idle, engaged in activities that do not glorify the Lord or in pursuance thereof. Everything and everyone has a function and should be used to their maximum extent. 3. Increase the fertility by composting (on the cropland) and introducing rapid rotational grazing (on the hay and pasture lands) along with a holistic form of agriculture. 4. Obtain more land, develop it agriculturally and ecologically so that the brahmanas have full facility. DO NOT BECOME A SUBURBIA PARK. Become a village where Krsna’s name rings throughout the leys … Gita Nagari. It is not just in Pennsylavia but at every ISKCON farm that Srila Prabhupada’s writing of that village apply. Ys, Rohita dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 >"COM: Gokula das (New Nandagram - AU)" <Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> >Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, >Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se >"WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" <jdf1 (AT) stsi (DOT) net>, >"COM: Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>, "COM: >Varnasrama development" <Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> >Re: Cowslaughter in ISKCON? >Wed, 5 May 99 11:39 +1100 > >[Text 2290152 from COM] > >Janesvara wrote > > > > No. His wealth was from working his devotee butt off. Perspiration. And > > emplying thousands and thousands of others in the milk production > > "business" or whatever name you want to give it. Nanda had a million >cows! Therefore, there was no enemployment. We shouldn't think working our butts off an unpleasant thing, what is really unpleasant is being without work, it means trouble for men and animals. Prabhupada: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain both for the animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and bull. The bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented tractors, what is called? Tractor? Madhudvisa: Cultivators. Prabhupada: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed? Engage them in tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have occupation. There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become unemployed. So unemployed means devil's workshop. > > Do you realize how many gallons of milk, pounds of butter, curd and >yogurt > > that is daily? Was he just throwing the milk on the ground? I doubt it. > > How many residents of Vrindavana were there? Certainly not even close to > > enough to consume tis amount of milk products. Wouldn't it seem common > > sense that Nanda was serving his king faithfully and producing the milk > > required by the inhabitants of the nearby cities who could not produce > > milk in the city? And the king was assuring Nanda that all of his > > necessities were taken care of and much more in the way of wealth? It >was > > a gigantic enterprise the likes of which we do not even see nowadays. A > > MILLION cows! How many millions of acres of land were being managed? > > Employees? Hard work every single day. No, not every single day: Srila Prabhupada: Life should be conducted in such a way that our necessities of life may come not with great effort, easily, easily. We should not encumber ourself, our life, living policy, in an encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern society has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they have no time for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was that people used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working during rainy season. So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So nine months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months they used to work for accumulating their foodstuff. Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my labor, according to my intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work hard. Generally, they work two times: three months, three months. And those who are very lazy, they work three months. But even working for three months, they can aquire foodstuffs for the whole year. That I have seen. So similarly, as we get some land and work for ourself >I agree certainly work for everybody If we're satisfied with the basic necessities of life, then its indicated here that 3 months work is sufficient. > > Or do we not really believe this? Its not a question of believing, these are the vedic histories. Its just hard to understand how it works because its so foreign to our kali-yuga situation. That shouldn't make us frightened to take it up. That's what "having faith in the words of the spiritual master" is all about. > >Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8 >refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's >restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd >of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent >inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading >the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels. Those devotees should read another part of the Srimad Bhagavatam, where it describes the effects of Kali-yuga... >These effects, as we know, can be held back by the potency of the >sankirtana movement, whose potency comes from strictly adhering to the instructions of our spiritual master, otherwise its the 3rd offense, and the mantra will not take effect (18 days, strictly following, everyone,~ world take-over!) If 35 milking cows from your farm supplied 100kg of ghee to the restaurants, the money from purchasing this ghee, as well as the money from selling the leftover cream-reduced milk and yoghurt, should be put into purchasing more land for the cows. That was Srila Prabhupada's solution- I'll find the exact quote for you. Unless there is guarantee this will happen- and the prices are adjusted accordingly to allow for lifetime protection- than its better to just breed enough for one's needs, and have the bullocks plough and produce the other necessities. This is probably the safest road, and the one Srila Prabhupada repeatedly requested us to do, as compared to the commercial idea, which he gave concession to IF the money was used to purchase land(so far it's never happened in ISKCON). It would also require plenty of trained-up vaisyas to engage the bullocks- otherwise they'll be a burden. This is a fact whether you're breeding 35 or 1. fuePrabhupada: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be killed. Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be given some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is their law. Hari-sauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway. Prabhupada: No. Hari-sauri: They are useless animals. Prabhupada: Simply expensive. But here in India they know how to utilize bulls--for transportation, for plowing and so many other things. Tamala Krsna: Such a shortage of fuel, but there is no shortage of fuel with a bull. Prabhupada: No, rather, it will supply you gobar, fuel. Whatever he will eat, he will give l. YS, Niscala. ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 >"COM: Gokula das (New Nandagram - AU)" <Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> >Gokula.das (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se, >Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se >"WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" <jdf1 (AT) stsi (DOT) net>, >"COM: Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>, "COM: >Varnasrama development" <Varnasrama.development (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> >Re: Cowslaughter in ISKCON? >Wed, 5 May 99 11:39 +1100 > >[Text 2290152 from COM] > >Janesvara wrote > > > > No. His wealth was from working his devotee butt off. Perspiration. And > > emplying thousands and thousands of others in the milk production > > "business" or whatever name you want to give it. Nanda had a million >cows! Therefore, there was no enemployment. We shouldn't think working our butts off an unpleasant thing, what is really unpleasant is being without work, it means trouble for men and animals. Prabhupada: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain both for the animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and bull. The bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented tractors, what is called? Tractor? Madhudvisa: Cultivators. Prabhupada: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed? Engage them in tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have occupation. There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become unemployed. So unemployed means devil's workshop. > > Do you realize how many gallons of milk, pounds of butter, curd and >yogurt > > that is daily? Was he just throwing the milk on the ground? I doubt it. > > How many residents of Vrindavana were there? Certainly not even close to > > enough to consume tis amount of milk products. Wouldn't it seem common > > sense that Nanda was serving his king faithfully and producing the milk > > required by the inhabitants of the nearby cities who could not produce > > milk in the city? And the king was assuring Nanda that all of his > > necessities were taken care of and much more in the way of wealth? It >was > > a gigantic enterprise the likes of which we do not even see nowadays. A > > MILLION cows! How many millions of acres of land were being managed? > > Employees? Hard work every single day. No, not every single day: Srila Prabhupada: Life should be conducted in such a way that our necessities of life may come not with great effort, easily, easily. We should not encumber ourself, our life, living policy, in an encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern society has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they have no time for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was that people used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working during rainy season. So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So nine months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months they used to work for accumulating their foodstuff. Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my labor, according to my intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work hard. Generally, they work two times: three months, three months. And those who are very lazy, they work three months. But even working for three months, they can aquire foodstuffs for the whole year. That I have seen. So similarly, as we get some land and work for ourself >I agree certainly work for everybody If we're satisfied with the basic necessities of life, then its indicated here that 3 months work is sufficient. > > Or do we not really believe this? Its not a question of believing, these are the vedic histories. Its just hard to understand how it works because its so foreign to our kali-yuga situation. That shouldn't make us frightened to take it up. That's what "having faith in the words of the spiritual master" is all about. > >Our farm of 200 acres has been evaluated to have a sustainable herd of 8 >refreshed cows per year, a herd of 120. Melbourne temple and it's >restaurants use 100 kg of ghee per week which would require a milking herd >of 35, so you can see how difficult it is to equate our apparent >inadequacies to the expectation of the temple devotees who, after reading >the Krsna book, cannot understand our performance levels. Those devotees should read another part of the Srimad Bhagavatam, where it describes the effects of Kali-yuga... >These effects, as we know, can be held back by the potency of the >sankirtana movement, whose potency comes from strictly adhering to the instructions of our spiritual master, otherwise its the 3rd offense, and the mantra will not take effect (18 days, strictly following, everyone,~ world take-over!) If 35 milking cows from your farm supplied 100kg of ghee to the restaurants, the money from purchasing this ghee, as well as the money from selling the leftover cream-reduced milk and yoghurt, should be put into purchasing more land for the cows. That was Srila Prabhupada's solution- I'll find the exact quote for you. Unless there is guarantee this will happen- and the prices are adjusted accordingly to allow for lifetime protection- than its better to just breed enough for one's needs, and have the bullocks plough and produce the other necessities. This is probably the safest road, and the one Srila Prabhupada repeatedly requested us to do, as compared to the commercial idea, which he gave concession to IF the money was used to purchase land(so far it's never happened in ISKCON). It would also require plenty of trained-up vaisyas to engage the bullocks- otherwise they'll be a burden. This is a fact whether you're breeding 35 or 1. fuePrabhupada: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be killed. Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be given some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is their law. Hari-sauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway. Prabhupada: No. Hari-sauri: They are useless animals. Prabhupada: Simply expensive. But here in India they know how to utilize bulls--for transportation, for plowing and so many other things. Tamala Krsna: Such a shortage of fuel, but there is no shortage of fuel with a bull. Prabhupada: No, rather, it will supply you gobar, fuel. Whatever he will eat, he will give l. YS, Niscala. ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 > If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, > and was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the > hectare. Actualy it is described that the transcendental Vraja mandal is like a lotus, which opens and closes. When we were on the Vraja Parikrama we found that there were some places where Lord Krsna would walk to meet Radha or other sakhis. Often such walks would have taken half a day in the mundane estimation, and this did not tally with the actual pastimes. So we concluded that actualy vraja distances are flexible. In any case it is an offence to attempt to measure the dham. Also we should remember that these werent your average heifers, these were wish fulfilling surabhi's, so modern calculations might not suffice. But yep, Lotta cows. Sd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 > If Nanda maharaja was able to utilise all of Vrindavan, 64 square miles, > and was keeping 900 thousand cows then he was maintaining 55 cows to the > hectare. Actualy it is described that the transcendental Vraja mandal is like a lotus, which opens and closes. When we were on the Vraja Parikrama we found that there were some places where Lord Krsna would walk to meet Radha or other sakhis. Often such walks would have taken half a day in the mundane estimation, and this did not tally with the actual pastimes. So we concluded that actualy vraja distances are flexible. In any case it is an offence to attempt to measure the dham. Also we should remember that these werent your average heifers, these were wish fulfilling surabhi's, so modern calculations might not suffice. But yep, Lotta cows. Sd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote: > > Hard work every single day. > No, not every single day: So, who milks the cows twice a day every day? > So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So > nine > months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months > they used > to work for accumulating their foodstuff. We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months. In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna while doing it. > Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my > labor, > according to my > intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work > hard. Generally, > they work two times: three months, three months. Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense. > And those who are very > lazy, they > work three months. Let's not be any lazier than we already are. >But even working for three months, they can aquire > foodstuffs for > the whole year. That I have seen. There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels year-round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote: > > Hard work every single day. > No, not every single day: So, who milks the cows twice a day every day? > So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So > nine > months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months > they used > to work for accumulating their foodstuff. We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months. In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna while doing it. > Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my > labor, > according to my > intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work > hard. Generally, > they work two times: three months, three months. Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense. > And those who are very > lazy, they > work three months. Let's not be any lazier than we already are. >But even working for three months, they can aquire > foodstuffs for > the whole year. That I have seen. There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels year-round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 "WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" wrote: > [Text 2294912 from COM] > > On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote: > > > > Hard work every single day. > > > > No, not every single day: > > So, who milks the cows twice a day every day? This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point? What's going on here? Can you please set me straight on this? ys, hkdd > > > > So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So > > > nine > > months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months > > they used > > to work for accumulating their foodstuff. > > We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I > can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months. > > In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna > while doing it. > > > Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my > > labor, > > according to my > > intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work > > hard. Generally, > > they work two times: three months, three months. > > Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense. > > > And those who are very > > lazy, they > > work three months. > > Let's not be any lazier than we already are. > > >But even working for three months, they can aquire > > foodstuffs for > > the whole year. That I have seen. > > There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels > year-round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 "WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA)" wrote: > [Text 2294912 from COM] > > On 05 May 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote: > > > > Hard work every single day. > > > > No, not every single day: > > So, who milks the cows twice a day every day? This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point? What's going on here? Can you please set me straight on this? ys, hkdd > > > > So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So > > > nine > > months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months > > they used > > to work for accumulating their foodstuff. > > We have a hard time practicing "spiritual activities" for two hours a day. I > can't imagine the lazy slobs that would develop in nine months. > > In my opinion our motto should be: Work hard everyday and chant Hare Krsna > while doing it. > > > Srila Prabhupada: So as we till our land and gets foodstuff according to my > > labor, > > according to my > > intelligence... Food grains I can produce once twice, thrice, if I work > > hard. Generally, > > they work two times: three months, three months. > > Many growing seasons are about six months long. It makes sense. > > > And those who are very > > lazy, they > > work three months. > > Let's not be any lazier than we already are. > > >But even working for three months, they can aquire > > foodstuffs for > > the whole year. That I have seen. > > There are plenty of other activities to raise the perspiration levels > year-round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 1999 Report Share Posted May 7, 1999 On 06 May 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote: > > > No, not every single day: > > > > So, who milks the cows twice a day every day? > > This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I > mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point? > What's > going on here? Can you please set me straight on this? An innocent question really. No real reason to be so smug, I don't think? If you are going to accuse me of refuting Srila Prabhupada please show me directly. The comment tree went something like the following: I stated: ..Hard work every single day. Niscala stated: No, not every single day. Then quoted the following from Srila Prabhupada: " Srila Prabhupada: Life should be conducted in such a way that our necessities of life may come not with great effort, easily, easily. We should not encumber ourself, our life, living policy, in an encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern society has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they have no time for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was that people used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working during rainy season. So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So nine months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months they used to work for accumulating their foodstuff." I cannot find in this quote where it says that we do not work everyday. In an "ideal" Vedic situation we may not have to "accumulate foodstuff" every single day of the year, but does that mean that there are not many other prescribed duties to be performed everyday? Like milking the cows? Cleaning temples, homes, barns, streets, parks, lakes, forests. Planting trees, digging wells, managing people, building temples, homes, barns, etc. Does "free to advance in spiritual culture" mean we sit on our duffs for nine months? Isn't hard work for Krsna "advancing in spiritual culture"? "Srila Prabhupada: Yes. This is poverty, why is there poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life, so-called education, sitting idle in the table and chair and talking all gossips and nonsense and sleeping. They are being trained up in this way — sudra. Hrdayananda Goswami: So they should be trained to rise early. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, if you keep healthy then you will naturally rise early. But because you have lost all stamina therefore sleeping is your only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much he is weak in his health. And a strong man, he will perspire." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 1999 Report Share Posted May 7, 1999 On 06 May 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote: > > > No, not every single day: > > > > So, who milks the cows twice a day every day? > > This is really bewildering. I thought this was a Prabhupada quote. Am I > mistaken? Or are you actually refuting Srila Prabhupada point-by-point? > What's > going on here? Can you please set me straight on this? An innocent question really. No real reason to be so smug, I don't think? If you are going to accuse me of refuting Srila Prabhupada please show me directly. The comment tree went something like the following: I stated: ..Hard work every single day. Niscala stated: No, not every single day. Then quoted the following from Srila Prabhupada: " Srila Prabhupada: Life should be conducted in such a way that our necessities of life may come not with great effort, easily, easily. We should not encumber ourself, our life, living policy, in an encumbered way. Then our spiritual progress will be hampered. The modern society has practically encumbered the whole human activities, and therefore they have no time for spiritual culture. You see? But the conception of Vedic civilization was that people used to be satisfied on agricultural produce and for three months working during rainy season. So they get some agriculture produce and they used to eat the whole year. So nine months they were free to advance in spiritual culture and only three months they used to work for accumulating their foodstuff." I cannot find in this quote where it says that we do not work everyday. In an "ideal" Vedic situation we may not have to "accumulate foodstuff" every single day of the year, but does that mean that there are not many other prescribed duties to be performed everyday? Like milking the cows? Cleaning temples, homes, barns, streets, parks, lakes, forests. Planting trees, digging wells, managing people, building temples, homes, barns, etc. Does "free to advance in spiritual culture" mean we sit on our duffs for nine months? Isn't hard work for Krsna "advancing in spiritual culture"? "Srila Prabhupada: Yes. This is poverty, why is there poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life, so-called education, sitting idle in the table and chair and talking all gossips and nonsense and sleeping. They are being trained up in this way — sudra. Hrdayananda Goswami: So they should be trained to rise early. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, if you keep healthy then you will naturally rise early. But because you have lost all stamina therefore sleeping is your only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much he is weak in his health. And a strong man, he will perspire." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 1999 Report Share Posted May 8, 1999 Prabhus, We have had experience of many of the problems under discussion in recent times. Cows died prematurely, blood milk was bought and there was no great level of active farming at our centre. Since ten years ago when my husband and myself moved to another area, the land has practically stood still. There have been attempts by good hearted devotees to establish, re-establish and so on, but I am in total agreement, it is hard work! It seems that there is a sad lack of Dharma or duty regarding the land. It is a practical thing needing practical application and hard work. It is something not only for agriculturists (who we have heard of as being looked down on), but for all devotees. Man, woman and child. This takes sincerity and committment. My husband and myself do not feel looked down upon. In fact younger devotees come and ask advice about many things including the land and cows. We pace ourselves as we have to make it through this for the rest of our lives in this body. If someone is looking down on me, then that is their mercy that I am not going to become puffed up. Indeed if people were to try to insult me, they couldn't. I was born less than sudra as are most in this age. We know nothing of varna or ashrama and only gain what little we have by Srila Prabhupada's endless mercy. To a great extent we are still struggling just like children. But someday we must grow up and not always look to others for sorting our problems. Everyone must look to themself. In just over one and a half years since we are back, every devotee is interested, some are actively working plots, and we're getting on with our duty which is our preaching and our service and we enjoy it! We are not perfect and we make mistakes, but we learn from them and so it goes on.So devotees should look to themselves more, their inter devotee relationships and look to setting a standard of example which will inspire others into action. Good leadership is contagious and so is positive service attitude. If devotees are buying milk, then offering it, there is purification by paying of laxmi. (Srila Prabhupada referrs to this purification in Sri Siksamrta). However if devotees can avail of Cow protected, bhakti-service produced milk, then they should be honourable and do so. It's a matter of honour and a matter of duty. There should be realistic measures attached to this also. Devotees should not keep pet cows for the sake of it, it should be real. However devotees should be practical and not overproduce cows in any kind of initial enthusiasm. It should be steady production and to the cowherder's ability to take care of them. Any devotee who has maintained this service is worthy of praise, but individual devotees should be informed that taking care of a cow for Krsna is similar to rearing a child. Indeed my children are leaving quicker than our cows! They may go on travelling sankirtana but the cow will stay with you. This is fine if you have real faith that this agricultural way of life in Krsna Consciousness is what you really want as a service, and what Srila Prabhupada wanted of his disciples. And if it is, then you work it until you drop. If you care for Krsna's land and cows He will certainly be there with you at the time of death. Technology or not, it's what you do with your life's mission that counts. Re-educate within your community and do your service and Krsna will take care of you. All glories to Sri Govinda. your servant Ananda Maya dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 1999 Report Share Posted May 8, 1999 Prabhus, We have had experience of many of the problems under discussion in recent times. Cows died prematurely, blood milk was bought and there was no great level of active farming at our centre. Since ten years ago when my husband and myself moved to another area, the land has practically stood still. There have been attempts by good hearted devotees to establish, re-establish and so on, but I am in total agreement, it is hard work! It seems that there is a sad lack of Dharma or duty regarding the land. It is a practical thing needing practical application and hard work. It is something not only for agriculturists (who we have heard of as being looked down on), but for all devotees. Man, woman and child. This takes sincerity and committment. My husband and myself do not feel looked down upon. In fact younger devotees come and ask advice about many things including the land and cows. We pace ourselves as we have to make it through this for the rest of our lives in this body. If someone is looking down on me, then that is their mercy that I am not going to become puffed up. Indeed if people were to try to insult me, they couldn't. I was born less than sudra as are most in this age. We know nothing of varna or ashrama and only gain what little we have by Srila Prabhupada's endless mercy. To a great extent we are still struggling just like children. But someday we must grow up and not always look to others for sorting our problems. Everyone must look to themself. In just over one and a half years since we are back, every devotee is interested, some are actively working plots, and we're getting on with our duty which is our preaching and our service and we enjoy it! We are not perfect and we make mistakes, but we learn from them and so it goes on.So devotees should look to themselves more, their inter devotee relationships and look to setting a standard of example which will inspire others into action. Good leadership is contagious and so is positive service attitude. If devotees are buying milk, then offering it, there is purification by paying of laxmi. (Srila Prabhupada referrs to this purification in Sri Siksamrta). However if devotees can avail of Cow protected, bhakti-service produced milk, then they should be honourable and do so. It's a matter of honour and a matter of duty. There should be realistic measures attached to this also. Devotees should not keep pet cows for the sake of it, it should be real. However devotees should be practical and not overproduce cows in any kind of initial enthusiasm. It should be steady production and to the cowherder's ability to take care of them. Any devotee who has maintained this service is worthy of praise, but individual devotees should be informed that taking care of a cow for Krsna is similar to rearing a child. Indeed my children are leaving quicker than our cows! They may go on travelling sankirtana but the cow will stay with you. This is fine if you have real faith that this agricultural way of life in Krsna Consciousness is what you really want as a service, and what Srila Prabhupada wanted of his disciples. And if it is, then you work it until you drop. If you care for Krsna's land and cows He will certainly be there with you at the time of death. Technology or not, it's what you do with your life's mission that counts. Re-educate within your community and do your service and Krsna will take care of you. All glories to Sri Govinda. your servant Ananda Maya dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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