Fw: Iscowp letter detailing animal abuse at New Vrindavana

[Guest guest]

By the way, I want to make it clear that to my knowledge, the situation of

animal abuse, it that is what did happen, is no longer occuring at New

Vrindavana. They have retired the old dairy barn and have built a new and

small goshalla by the guest house and temple.

 

If you have any questions about the following details, please direct your

questions to the Minister of Agriculture.

 

>>

>>From ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) comWed Jan 24 11:10:12 1996

>>Thu, 21 Sep 95 20:06 EDT

>>"LINK: ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi)" <ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) com>

>>vyapaka (AT) gmgate (DOT) vircom.com

>>your text

>>Dear Vyapaka Prabhu,

>>Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila

>>Prabhupada.

>>Your text was once again so well written, giving an analysis from a

>>wide vision of the problems involved. Please continue to write more

>>in the conference. It's really great to see participation from others

>>which your text inspired. It's nice that Hare Krsna dasi and we put in

>>texts but the more wider the participation the more we are

>>achieiving the goals of having the cow conference in the first place.

>>Your extensive knowledge of the soil and organics is something we

>>would like to see shared if possible on this conference. We really

>>want the practical along with the theoretical. We have encouraged

>>devotees to join the conference to get practical knowledge, so if all

>>they get is the theoretical they will be diasppointed to some degree.

>>We also like very much putting your information in our newsletter.

>>We lost Smita Krsna 's text-what did you think of his land acquiring

>>ideas? We are writting him to see if he still has the text and can

>>send it to us so we can read it more carefully. This is a big subject,

>>land acquisition.

>>We did not explain the commercial dairy program at New Vrndavana

>>in depth on the cow conference or in the newsletter because it is

>>highly unsavorable. We are trying to work cooperatively with New

>>Vrndavana and they are very touchy abnout broadcasting their past

>>mistakes. Many of the forces that supported the commercial dairy

>>program are gone and the present management is sincerely trying to

>>rectify things, one way by bringing us in. So we have handled it

>>carefully.

>>However Blalabhadra has blasted them to their face for years about

>>what was going on. As the years progressed people left and those

>>that remained began to see the light. But still there is so much

>>misunderstanding on this commercial dairy concept throughout

>>ISKCON. In short what they did, with Bhaktapada giving the

>>instructions to do

>>so, was put out all the calves in the winter and see who survived. All

>>kind of rationalizations were applied under Bhaktapada's direction.

>>It was a dangerous situation, even we were a bit fearful that

>>something would happen to Blabhadra for taking such an open strong

>>position. However there is never any excuse for such a move.

>>Basically Bhaktipada had control over everyone's minds and was the

>>force behind it.

>>The devotees at New Vrndavana are struggling to clean out all the

>>residues of Bhaktipada's influence and want to concetrat on the

>>positive.. It was a very unfortunate situation.

>>To end on a happier note, your holistic community explanation drew

>>in participation, how can we expand on that? Entries on how to

>>recognize good soil and develop it-a little information at a time (1-

>>2 pages). Maybe we could enter in something about how to train a

>>young calf to voice commands, short also. What do you think?

>>Your servants,

>>Balabhadra d. & Chayadevi dasi

>>P.S. The last look showed 90 members of the cow confrence from

>>about 18 different countries.

>>

>>

>>

>

[Guest guest]

By the way, I want to make it clear that to my knowledge, the situation of

animal abuse, it that is what did happen, is no longer occuring at New

Vrindavana. They have retired the old dairy barn and have built a new and

small goshalla by the guest house and temple.

 

If you have any questions about the following details, please direct your

questions to the Minister of Agriculture.

 

>>

>>From ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) comWed Jan 24 11:10:12 1996

>>Thu, 21 Sep 95 20:06 EDT

>>"LINK: ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi)" <ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) com>

>>vyapaka (AT) gmgate (DOT) vircom.com

>>your text

>>Dear Vyapaka Prabhu,

>>Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila

>>Prabhupada.

>>Your text was once again so well written, giving an analysis from a

>>wide vision of the problems involved. Please continue to write more

>>in the conference. It's really great to see participation from others

>>which your text inspired. It's nice that Hare Krsna dasi and we put in

>>texts but the more wider the participation the more we are

>>achieiving the goals of having the cow conference in the first place.

>>Your extensive knowledge of the soil and organics is something we

>>would like to see shared if possible on this conference. We really

>>want the practical along with the theoretical. We have encouraged

>>devotees to join the conference to get practical knowledge, so if all

>>they get is the theoretical they will be diasppointed to some degree.

>>We also like very much putting your information in our newsletter.

>>We lost Smita Krsna 's text-what did you think of his land acquiring

>>ideas? We are writting him to see if he still has the text and can

>>send it to us so we can read it more carefully. This is a big subject,

>>land acquisition.

>>We did not explain the commercial dairy program at New Vrndavana

>>in depth on the cow conference or in the newsletter because it is

>>highly unsavorable. We are trying to work cooperatively with New

>>Vrndavana and they are very touchy abnout broadcasting their past

>>mistakes. Many of the forces that supported the commercial dairy

>>program are gone and the present management is sincerely trying to

>>rectify things, one way by bringing us in. So we have handled it

>>carefully.

>>However Blalabhadra has blasted them to their face for years about

>>what was going on. As the years progressed people left and those

>>that remained began to see the light. But still there is so much

>>misunderstanding on this commercial dairy concept throughout

>>ISKCON. In short what they did, with Bhaktapada giving the

>>instructions to do

>>so, was put out all the calves in the winter and see who survived. All

>>kind of rationalizations were applied under Bhaktapada's direction.

>>It was a dangerous situation, even we were a bit fearful that

>>something would happen to Blabhadra for taking such an open strong

>>position. However there is never any excuse for such a move.

>>Basically Bhaktipada had control over everyone's minds and was the

>>force behind it.

>>The devotees at New Vrndavana are struggling to clean out all the

>>residues of Bhaktipada's influence and want to concetrat on the

>>positive.. It was a very unfortunate situation.

>>To end on a happier note, your holistic community explanation drew

>>in participation, how can we expand on that? Entries on how to

>>recognize good soil and develop it-a little information at a time (1-

>>2 pages). Maybe we could enter in something about how to train a

>>young calf to voice commands, short also. What do you think?

>>Your servants,

>>Balabhadra d. & Chayadevi dasi

>>P.S. The last look showed 90 members of the cow confrence from

>>about 18 different countries.

>>

>>

>>

>

[Guest guest]

On 25 Apr 1999, Robert Cope wrote:

>

> If you have any questions about the following details, please direct your

questions to the Minister of Agriculture.

>

>

 

 

I seemed to miss the part about Malati wanting to call all the brahmancarinis

gopis. Or maybe that was a different letter?

 

I certainly missed the part about ol' Mad Gosh selling ISKCON cows to Burger

King. Maybe that was some different parallel universe?

[Guest guest]

On 25 Apr 1999, Robert Cope wrote:

>

> If you have any questions about the following details, please direct your

questions to the Minister of Agriculture.

>

>

 

 

I seemed to miss the part about Malati wanting to call all the brahmancarinis

gopis. Or maybe that was a different letter?

 

I certainly missed the part about ol' Mad Gosh selling ISKCON cows to Burger

King. Maybe that was some different parallel universe?

[Guest guest]

First, my apologies to Madhusudhani for getting into this. I meant to

respect her wishes this not be carried on here, but since Vyapaka has chosen

to disregard this wish, and continued to make allegations, I am going to

respond. We can see when he went in and attacked Ranaka and Ranaka didn't

expend energy defending himself (becasue he was too busy in a total crisis

with the cows), Vyapaka has taken such humility as an admission of guilt.

Since I lack humility, and especially since he has blasphemed Ranaka, he

won't have the same option with me.

 

I have no difficulty going before the Deities and making statements. To

prevent Vyapaka from spiritual suicide, I thing the court room would be the

best route.

 

In a courtroom, the one thing to establish is a timeline. Vyapaka said he

wrote his big expose based on a letter from ISCOWP which is reproduced below.

 

>

>

> >>

> >>From ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) comWed Jan 24 11:10:12 1996

> >>Thu, 21 Sep 95 20:06 EDT

> >>"LINK: ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi)" <ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) com>

 

Please note that the article thus must have been written after Jan 1996.

 

Breeding was completely halted in NV in

 

> >>We did not explain the commercial dairy program at New Vrndavana

> >>in depth on the cow conference or in the newsletter because it is

> >>highly unsavorable. We are trying to work cooperatively with New

> >>Vrndavana and they are very touchy abnout broadcasting their past

> >>mistakes. Many of the forces that supported the commercial dairy

> >>program are gone and the present management is sincerely trying to

> >>rectify things, one way by bringing us in. So we have handled it

> >>carefully.

> >>However Blalabhadra has blasted them to their face for years about

> >>what was going on. As the years progressed people left and those

> >>that remained began to see the light.

 

Memory is a little hazy about when I exactly bailed on the NV cow program,

but it was before 1985. It was a crazy situation - I bailed BEFORE it went

commercial as it was so against my gut.

 

> But still there is so much

> >>misunderstanding on this commercial dairy concept throughout

> >>ISKCON. In short what they did, with Bhaktapada giving the

> >>instructions to do

> >>so, was put out all the calves in the winter and see who survived. All

> >>kind of rationalizations were applied under Bhaktapada's direction.

> >>It was a dangerous situation, even we were a bit fearful that

> >>something would happen to Blabhadra for taking such an open strong

> >>position. However there is never any excuse for such a move.

> >>Basically Bhaktipada had control over everyone's minds and was the

> >>force behind it.

> >>The devotees at New Vrndavana are struggling to clean out all the

> >>residues of Bhaktipada's influence and want to concetrat on the

> >>positive.. It was a very unfortunate situation.

 

I got reinvolved in 1991, after the breeding stopped and Bhaktipada pulled

the plug on the funding. That disaster of huge magnitude was about to happen

was obvious to me, and I put my life on hold to focus on minimizing the

damage.

 

For someone to come along 5 years later and attack a program that had ended 5

years before hurt fundraising and crippled efforts to preserve the herd,

directly contributing to the loss of animals through lack of needed care,

incidentally.

 

Anyway, Vyapaka's claim of cow slaughter which he said was verified by

Balabhadra, does not seem to be supported by the letter. As a matter of

fact, cow slaughter isn't mentioned at all. It never happened, so there

will be no evidence to support that charge.

 

As a matter of fact, in a court, the decision of a judge would probably be

that NV was negligent for not slaughtering cows and using the money to save

the remainder.

[Guest guest]

First, my apologies to Madhusudhani for getting into this. I meant to

respect her wishes this not be carried on here, but since Vyapaka has chosen

to disregard this wish, and continued to make allegations, I am going to

respond. We can see when he went in and attacked Ranaka and Ranaka didn't

expend energy defending himself (becasue he was too busy in a total crisis

with the cows), Vyapaka has taken such humility as an admission of guilt.

Since I lack humility, and especially since he has blasphemed Ranaka, he

won't have the same option with me.

 

I have no difficulty going before the Deities and making statements. To

prevent Vyapaka from spiritual suicide, I thing the court room would be the

best route.

 

In a courtroom, the one thing to establish is a timeline. Vyapaka said he

wrote his big expose based on a letter from ISCOWP which is reproduced below.

 

>

>

> >>

> >>From ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) comWed Jan 24 11:10:12 1996

> >>Thu, 21 Sep 95 20:06 EDT

> >>"LINK: ISCOWP (Balabhadra Dasa & Chaya Dasi)" <ISCOWP (AT) iskcon (DOT) com>

 

Please note that the article thus must have been written after Jan 1996.

 

Breeding was completely halted in NV in

 

> >>We did not explain the commercial dairy program at New Vrndavana

> >>in depth on the cow conference or in the newsletter because it is

> >>highly unsavorable. We are trying to work cooperatively with New

> >>Vrndavana and they are very touchy abnout broadcasting their past

> >>mistakes. Many of the forces that supported the commercial dairy

> >>program are gone and the present management is sincerely trying to

> >>rectify things, one way by bringing us in. So we have handled it

> >>carefully.

> >>However Blalabhadra has blasted them to their face for years about

> >>what was going on. As the years progressed people left and those

> >>that remained began to see the light.

 

Memory is a little hazy about when I exactly bailed on the NV cow program,

but it was before 1985. It was a crazy situation - I bailed BEFORE it went

commercial as it was so against my gut.

 

> But still there is so much

> >>misunderstanding on this commercial dairy concept throughout

> >>ISKCON. In short what they did, with Bhaktapada giving the

> >>instructions to do

> >>so, was put out all the calves in the winter and see who survived. All

> >>kind of rationalizations were applied under Bhaktapada's direction.

> >>It was a dangerous situation, even we were a bit fearful that

> >>something would happen to Blabhadra for taking such an open strong

> >>position. However there is never any excuse for such a move.

> >>Basically Bhaktipada had control over everyone's minds and was the

> >>force behind it.

> >>The devotees at New Vrndavana are struggling to clean out all the

> >>residues of Bhaktipada's influence and want to concetrat on the

> >>positive.. It was a very unfortunate situation.

 

I got reinvolved in 1991, after the breeding stopped and Bhaktipada pulled

the plug on the funding. That disaster of huge magnitude was about to happen

was obvious to me, and I put my life on hold to focus on minimizing the

damage.

 

For someone to come along 5 years later and attack a program that had ended 5

years before hurt fundraising and crippled efforts to preserve the herd,

directly contributing to the loss of animals through lack of needed care,

incidentally.

 

Anyway, Vyapaka's claim of cow slaughter which he said was verified by

Balabhadra, does not seem to be supported by the letter. As a matter of

fact, cow slaughter isn't mentioned at all. It never happened, so there

will be no evidence to support that charge.

 

As a matter of fact, in a court, the decision of a judge would probably be

that NV was negligent for not slaughtering cows and using the money to save

the remainder.

[Guest guest]

On 25 Apr 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

> On 25 Apr 1999, Robert Cope wrote:

> > If you have any questions about the following details, please direct your

> questions to the Minister of Agriculture. >

>

> I seemed to miss the part about Malati wanting to call all the

brahmancarinis > gopis. Or maybe that was a different letter?

>

> I certainly missed the part about ol' Mad Gosh selling ISKCON cows to Burger

> King. Maybe that was some different parallel universe?

You are being a rascal here. I have explicitly stated the Mad. Ghosh was not

directly involved in the alledged activities. Why aren't you concerned about

the fate of the animals.

 

I have answered your question about the gopis elsewhere.

[Guest guest]

On 25 Apr 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

> On 25 Apr 1999, Robert Cope wrote:

> > If you have any questions about the following details, please direct your

> questions to the Minister of Agriculture. >

>

> I seemed to miss the part about Malati wanting to call all the

brahmancarinis > gopis. Or maybe that was a different letter?

>

> I certainly missed the part about ol' Mad Gosh selling ISKCON cows to Burger

> King. Maybe that was some different parallel universe?

You are being a rascal here. I have explicitly stated the Mad. Ghosh was not

directly involved in the alledged activities. Why aren't you concerned about

the fate of the animals.

 

I have answered your question about the gopis elsewhere.

[Guest guest]

Reread the letter. Balabhadra/Chaya explicitly state that the animals were

left to freeze in the fields. Why didn't you put that into your above

submission?

 

I have never stated that you were invovled and this is not about you so don't

confuse the subject. If you weren't involved at all then how can you be so

sure about the circumstances. Talk to your friend Balabhadra, he will inform

you.

 

You have also neglected to inform us how one can milk 75 to 100 animals for

many years and have the herd size remain the same. Please do so because this

would be a great bit of information on how to set up varnasrama.

[Guest guest]

Reread the letter. Balabhadra/Chaya explicitly state that the animals were

left to freeze in the fields. Why didn't you put that into your above

submission?

 

I have never stated that you were invovled and this is not about you so don't

confuse the subject. If you weren't involved at all then how can you be so

sure about the circumstances. Talk to your friend Balabhadra, he will inform

you.

 

You have also neglected to inform us how one can milk 75 to 100 animals for

many years and have the herd size remain the same. Please do so because this

would be a great bit of information on how to set up varnasrama.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> You have also neglected to inform us how one can milk 75 to 100 animals for

> many years and have the herd size remain the same. Please do so because this

> would be a great bit of information on how to set up varnasrama.

 

I don't see the necessity to explain something that isn't true. The herd size

increased dramatically.

 

If you want to have an intelligent conversation about why the rate of expansion

was less than optimal, that is another issue.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> You have also neglected to inform us how one can milk 75 to 100 animals for

> many years and have the herd size remain the same. Please do so because this

> would be a great bit of information on how to set up varnasrama.

 

I don't see the necessity to explain something that isn't true. The herd size

increased dramatically.

 

If you want to have an intelligent conversation about why the rate of expansion

was less than optimal, that is another issue.

[Guest guest]

 

Robert Cope <vyapaka (AT) accel (DOT) net>

Mark Middle Mountain <gourdmad (AT) access (DOT) mountain.net>

Friday, May 14, 1999 2:31 PM

Re: Fw: Iscowp letter detailing animal abuse at New Vrindavana

 

 

>

>Vyapaka dasa wrote>>

>>> You have also neglected to inform us how one can milk 75 to 100 animals

>for

>>> many years and have the herd size remain the same. Please do so because

>this

>>> would be a great bit of information on how to set up varnasrama.

>Madhava Ghosh responded:

>>I don't see the necessity to explain something that isn't true. The herd

>size

>>increased dramatically.

>>

>>If you want to have an intelligent conversation about why the rate of

>expansion

>>was less than optimal, that is another issue.

>

>That 75 animals were milked each year was told to me by Nris. Caitanya

>Prabhu and I think another brahmacarya at the meeting. Nrs. Cait for sure.

I

>didn't make up the figure. In fact, I thought you were milking many more

>than that.

>

[Guest guest]

 

Robert Cope <vyapaka (AT) accel (DOT) net>

Mark Middle Mountain <gourdmad (AT) access (DOT) mountain.net>

Friday, May 14, 1999 2:31 PM

Re: Fw: Iscowp letter detailing animal abuse at New Vrindavana

 

 

>

>Vyapaka dasa wrote>>

>>> You have also neglected to inform us how one can milk 75 to 100 animals

>for

>>> many years and have the herd size remain the same. Please do so because

>this

>>> would be a great bit of information on how to set up varnasrama.

>Madhava Ghosh responded:

>>I don't see the necessity to explain something that isn't true. The herd

>size

>>increased dramatically.

>>

>>If you want to have an intelligent conversation about why the rate of

>expansion

>>was less than optimal, that is another issue.

>

>That 75 animals were milked each year was told to me by Nris. Caitanya

>Prabhu and I think another brahmacarya at the meeting. Nrs. Cait for sure.

I

>didn't make up the figure. In fact, I thought you were milking many more

>than that.

>