Mercy Killing

[Guest guest]

> However, what do we

> do when a favorite, elderly cow gets a nasty, compound fracture from a

> groundhog hole? Besides get a dog to get rid of the ground hogs?

 

This has been discussed on the Cow conference and the conclusion is that you

don't do mercy killing of cows.

[Guest guest]

On 25 Apr 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> > However, what do we

> > do when a favorite, elderly cow gets a nasty, compound fracture from a

> > groundhog hole? Besides get a dog to get rid of the ground hogs?

>

> This has been discussed on the Cow conference and the conclusion is that

you

> don't do mercy killing of cows.

 

OK, so what about my parakeet and my Grandma.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bolo

[Guest guest]

"WWW: Jiva Goswami (Dasa) SDG (Gita Nagari - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2267224 from COM]

>

> On 25 Apr 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote:

>

> > > However, what do we

> > > do when a favorite, elderly cow gets a nasty, compound fracture from a

> > > groundhog hole? Besides get a dog to get rid of the ground hogs?

> >

> > This has been discussed on the Cow conference and the conclusion is that

> you

> > don't do mercy killing of cows.

>

> OK, so what about my parakeet and my Grandma.

>

> Bolo

 

Satsvarupa: But Gandhi would say, "No, don't kill because..."

Prabhupada: Gandhi's a rascal. Therefore he is failure. "In politics there is

no violence" -- that is another rascaldom.

Ramesvara: How has India improved by independence? What is the improvement?

They are more godless than ever.

Prabhupada: No, he... He... When the Hindus approached him that "You have got

so much influence over the Muhammadans. Stop cow-killing," he replied, "How

can I stop their cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. He accepted

something as religion which is killing. He's such a rascal.

Hari-sauri: And he was nonviolent.

Prabhupada: He was nonviolent. "In the name of religion, one can kill." This

is his philosophy. He was a politician. That's all. And he indulged personally

in mercy killing in his asrama. One calf was suffering, and he asked, "Kill

him. He's very much suffering." Mercy killing. He was a rascal. But we don't

say publicly, because he is very much... Sometimes we say.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977,

Bhubaneswar

 

Prabhupada: After all, you cannot protect. Why you give trouble at the time of

death? You cannot protect; your foolish attempt will not help him. This is the

same philosophy, that the animal is suffering, to kill him. Mercy of killing,

what is called?

Ramesvara: Mercy killing.

Prabhupada: So this is nonsense. Mercy killing. Killing mercy. (laughs) Just

see. The action is killing, and that is his mercy. This is their mercy. All

contradictory. Killing by mercy? Mercy is killing?

Hari-sauri: There's an example that's just going up to the courts now. There's

one family, their daughter was being supported by one machine, so one day they

went in early and pulled out the plugs. So now they are being taken to court.

They stopped the machine because she'd been in a coma for so long, so they

just pulled out the plugs and everything, the machine. So that's what they

call mercy killing. They don't like the doctors just to keep them there

uselessly.

Ramesvara: But then they want to kill the old people. This mercy killing, they

think that "An old man is suffering, so let us kill him."

Pusta Krsna: They think if someone dies in their sleep, they are very lucky.

Prabhupada: It is dangerous to die here.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York

[Guest guest]

Is mercy killing ever appropriate?

 

Good question, and one which has been with me for many years. I remember in

the Manor in about '78 there was a calf born with deformed legs, his /her (I

cant remember which one it was) lower legs were bent backwards below the

knee joint. They tried putting splints and all sorts of ways to straighten

the legs, but nothing worked. Eventualy after sometime hobbling around on

its knees, the bones started to show through and protrude. I remember

visiting this poor unfortunate calf, everyday, and feeling so helpless

seeing its agonising plight, it seemed so cruel to let this continue and to

see this doe eyed creature in such a condition (I hope I am not making

anyone cry here).

 

The devotees were almost paralysed. they did not know what to do. It seemed

so cruel to keep it alive, but we couldnt kill it.

 

Anyway it was taken out of our hands, apparently the vet took it into his

own hands and killed it with an injection.

 

There was another post wherein Srila Prabhupada says we are not to perform

mercy killings. These were mentioned in the context of a conversation on the

principle. Does anyone know if Srila PRabhupada was confronted with this

issue in an actual case in ISKCON? In the case I mentioned above, it was

taken out of our hands by the vetrinarian.

 

If something like this happens again, should we hide the animal from the

vet? Should we continue to feed it as if nothing were wrong? Should we give

it pain killers?

 

In the case of the calf at the manor, they desperatly needed his help to try

to cure the calf. As the animals protector this had to be done, but in this

case, once everything had been tried, and the animal did not improve, the

vet decided that the animal had to be 'put down' as it would be cruel to let

it live (which probabaly contravened RSPCA regulations).

 

So in a sense the devotees indirectly guaranteed its ultimate demise by

bringing in the vet.

 

Are their clear guidlines for this sort of thing now?

 

YS Samba das

 

SD

[Guest guest]

At 5:39 -0800 4/26/99, COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius) wrote:

>

>So in a sense the devotees indirectly guaranteed its ultimate demise by

>bringing in the vet.

 

I don't have any answers. Maybe this is simply something we'll have to

struggle with on an individual basis and with a lot of prayer. However, I

do have a story that ended differently from your calf story:

 

About 6-7 years ago, my daughter Jessica had a cockatiel (a bird), who was

sick. She was really weak and didn't move, eat or drink, so I took the bird

to the vet. He said she had an egg stuck that wouldn't come out. He

wanted to take x-rays, and surgery to remove the egg and then he wanted to

do a hysterectomy (remove the uterus) so that this couldn't happen again.

All in all, this would have cost over $1,000 - which I didn't have. So I

told him that there was no way I could afford that. "Well", he said, "then

you should let me put her to sleep".

 

I agonized, but finally said "no I'm afraid I can't allow that either".

The man just stared at me. He thought I was insane. He said that there was

no way this bird would ever deliver the egg normally and that she would die

while trying. But he still let me take the bird with me back home (maybe

because there weren't any clear signs that she was suffering, she just

looked weak).

 

Once home, we tried to make the bird as comfortable as possible. We made

sure she was warm and had water and food within easy reach, we massaged her

stomach,and my daughter (who was about 10 at the time) placed a picture of

baby Krsna in front of the bird and turned on a tape with the Hare Krsna

mantra. We did this for a couple of days and then it was time for snana

yatra in the Berkeley temple. We all went to the temple and bathed Lord

Jagannatha, Lord Balarama and Lady Subhadra. Since we had been helping

decorate His "recovery room" earlier, we went over there afterwards and

held the door as the pujaris carried our very special, presiding Deity out

of the temple room and away from our view. As Lord Jagannatha passed us in

the hallway, just a few inches away from our faces, we were filled with

awe. I can't explain it, but He just radiated warmth and strength. I looked

at Jessica (my daughter) and I knew she was praying for her bird.

 

After the feast, we drove home. The first thing Jessica did when we got in

(as always) was to go and check on her bird. I heard her shouts and ran

over. There was her bird, eating furiously out of her food cup - and

beside her was her egg!

 

The bird is gone now, but she lived for several more years after that

event. I'm not saying that everyone should disagree with their vet, or

that I think that mercy killings are always wrong. Only that these

situations are very individual and tricky and that no one (including highly

trained professionals) always know how things are going to turn out.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

At 5:39 -0800 4/26/99, COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius) wrote:

>

>So in a sense the devotees indirectly guaranteed its ultimate demise by

>bringing in the vet.

 

I don't have any answers. Maybe this is simply something we'll have to

struggle with on an individual basis and with a lot of prayer. However, I

do have a story that ended differently from your calf story:

 

About 6-7 years ago, my daughter Jessica had a cockatiel (a bird), who was

sick. She was really weak and didn't move, eat or drink, so I took the bird

to the vet. He said she had an egg stuck that wouldn't come out. He

wanted to take x-rays, and surgery to remove the egg and then he wanted to

do a hysterectomy (remove the uterus) so that this couldn't happen again.

All in all, this would have cost over $1,000 - which I didn't have. So I

told him that there was no way I could afford that. "Well", he said, "then

you should let me put her to sleep".

 

I agonized, but finally said "no I'm afraid I can't allow that either".

The man just stared at me. He thought I was insane. He said that there was

no way this bird would ever deliver the egg normally and that she would die

while trying. But he still let me take the bird with me back home (maybe

because there weren't any clear signs that she was suffering, she just

looked weak).

 

Once home, we tried to make the bird as comfortable as possible. We made

sure she was warm and had water and food within easy reach, we massaged her

stomach,and my daughter (who was about 10 at the time) placed a picture of

baby Krsna in front of the bird and turned on a tape with the Hare Krsna

mantra. We did this for a couple of days and then it was time for snana

yatra in the Berkeley temple. We all went to the temple and bathed Lord

Jagannatha, Lord Balarama and Lady Subhadra. Since we had been helping

decorate His "recovery room" earlier, we went over there afterwards and

held the door as the pujaris carried our very special, presiding Deity out

of the temple room and away from our view. As Lord Jagannatha passed us in

the hallway, just a few inches away from our faces, we were filled with

awe. I can't explain it, but He just radiated warmth and strength. I looked

at Jessica (my daughter) and I knew she was praying for her bird.

 

After the feast, we drove home. The first thing Jessica did when we got in

(as always) was to go and check on her bird. I heard her shouts and ran

over. There was her bird, eating furiously out of her food cup - and

beside her was her egg!

 

The bird is gone now, but she lived for several more years after that

event. I'm not saying that everyone should disagree with their vet, or

that I think that mercy killings are always wrong. Only that these

situations are very individual and tricky and that no one (including highly

trained professionals) always know how things are going to turn out.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi