Guest guest Posted April 27, 1999 Report Share Posted April 27, 1999 Thank you very much your level headed reminder of Srila Prabhupadas teachings. Although it is difficult to not respond to people who attack us, it is important to remain level headed, and humble in our response. It appears sometimes in this conference that we can get carried away. But Prabhupada warns us against such action. Why get caught up in tit for tat texts? It seems to me that much of what was written was done so out of rancor at some past dealings, and should not have been aired in an open forum. Of course if ones goal is to defame another, such a forum is ideal, but vaisnavas are supposed to be above such dealings no? Is humility in vaisinavism such a lost cause? > Vyapaka prabhu, Srila Prabhupada did not use this language in front of > ladies, and it is not appropriate for you to do so either. By attempting > to imitate Srila Prabhupada, many leaders have gotten into trouble by > sitting on high vyasasanas. > We should keep in mind also that we can also get into trouble when we try > to imitate certain things he said which he never intended for the public. > Lord Siva swallowed an ocean of poison, but Lord Siva is an empowered pure > devotee of the Lord. If we attempt to imitate such a pastime, the results > will be ruinous. Similarly, there are some aspects of Srila Prabhupada's > pastimes which are very dangerous for us to imitate. They can rip devotee > relationships to shreds. > > I've been reading Bhagavad-gita with my son and came on this verse which I > think all of us -- not just you -- are inclined to forget: > > ************************ > > Bhagavad-gita Chapter 17, Text 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 >>"WWW: Vyapaka (Dasa) ACBSP (Montreal - CAN)" wrote: >> >>> [Text 2264189 from COM] >>> >>> For the benefit of the readers who were upset by my use of certain words >I >>> again apologize. However, it seems that it was my misunderstanding that >most >>> everyone was aware of Srila Prabhupada's use of these terms during a >>> conversation. That conversation can be found in the Feb. 19, 1977 >conversation >>> (770219r2.may) with Adi Kesava dasa and others in Mayapura. >>> >>> After reading this conversation I guess you can also refer to Srila >Prabhupada >>> as a pig if you want to. For your information I was quoting him and would >>> never use such terms if he hadn't. It is my fault though for not putting >the >>> term in quotation marks and citing the source of the remark. >> >>Vyapaka prabhu, Srila Prabhupada did not use this language in front of >ladies, >>and it is not appropriate for you to do so either. By attempting to >imitate Srila >>Prabhupada, many leaders have gotten into trouble by sitting on high >vyasasanas. > >This conversation was when Srila Prabhupada was instructing Adi Kesava on >giving evidence to a court. This court would also be full of ladies. >According to Madhava Ghosh, women should have equal opportunities. So what >is the standard? I find it strange that you can comment on this but not on >Madhava Ghosh's point about the validity of using the f-word. > >>We should keep in mind also that we can also get into trouble when we try >to >>imitate certain things he said which he never intended for the public. >Lord Siva >>swallowed an ocean of poison, but Lord Siva is an empowered pure devotee of >the >>Lord. If we attempt to imitate such a pastime, the results will be >ruinous. > >Thank you. Due to your wise advice I won't drink an ocean of poison. I can >take this advice easily since I know you are quoting Prabhupada. > >>Similarly, there are some aspects of Srila Prabhupada's pastimes which are >very >>dangerous for us to imitate. They can rip devotee relationships to shreds. > >I was quoting Srila Prabhupada, not imitating him. I thought quoting one's >spiritual master was alright. Perhaps I can illustrate: > >According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth >only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth >should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand >actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned >that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is >unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands >that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is >the definition of truth. B.G. 10. 4-5, purport >> >>I've been reading Bhagavad-gita with my son and came on this verse which I >think >>all of us -- not just you -- are inclined to forget: >> >>************************ >> >>Bhagavad-gita Chapter 17, Text 15 >> >>Austerity of speech consists in speaking truthfully and beneficially and in >>avoiding speech that offends. One should also recite the Vedas regularly. >> >>PURPORT >> >>One should not speak in such a way as to agitate the minds of others. Of >course, >>when a teacher speaks, he can speak the truth for the instruction of his >students, >>but such a teacher shuld not speak to others who are not his students if he >will >>agitate their minds. This is penance as far as talking is concerned. >Besides >>that, one should not talk naonsense. When speaking in spiritual circles, >one's >>statements must be upheld by scriptures. One should at once quote from >scriptural >>authority to back up what he is saying. >> >>At the same time, such talk should be very pleasurable to the ear. By such >>discussions, one may derive the highest benefit and elevate human >society... >> >I have also been reading the Gita. > >"According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth >only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth >should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand >actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned >that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is >unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands >that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is >the definition of truth." B.G. 10. 4-5, purport >Respectfully, > >Vyapaka dasa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 >>"WWW: Vyapaka (Dasa) ACBSP (Montreal - CAN)" wrote: >> >>> [Text 2264189 from COM] >>> >>> For the benefit of the readers who were upset by my use of certain words >I >>> again apologize. However, it seems that it was my misunderstanding that >most >>> everyone was aware of Srila Prabhupada's use of these terms during a >>> conversation. That conversation can be found in the Feb. 19, 1977 >conversation >>> (770219r2.may) with Adi Kesava dasa and others in Mayapura. >>> >>> After reading this conversation I guess you can also refer to Srila >Prabhupada >>> as a pig if you want to. For your information I was quoting him and would >>> never use such terms if he hadn't. It is my fault though for not putting >the >>> term in quotation marks and citing the source of the remark. >> >>Vyapaka prabhu, Srila Prabhupada did not use this language in front of >ladies, >>and it is not appropriate for you to do so either. By attempting to >imitate Srila >>Prabhupada, many leaders have gotten into trouble by sitting on high >vyasasanas. > >This conversation was when Srila Prabhupada was instructing Adi Kesava on >giving evidence to a court. This court would also be full of ladies. >According to Madhava Ghosh, women should have equal opportunities. So what >is the standard? I find it strange that you can comment on this but not on >Madhava Ghosh's point about the validity of using the f-word. > >>We should keep in mind also that we can also get into trouble when we try >to >>imitate certain things he said which he never intended for the public. >Lord Siva >>swallowed an ocean of poison, but Lord Siva is an empowered pure devotee of >the >>Lord. If we attempt to imitate such a pastime, the results will be >ruinous. > >Thank you. Due to your wise advice I won't drink an ocean of poison. I can >take this advice easily since I know you are quoting Prabhupada. > >>Similarly, there are some aspects of Srila Prabhupada's pastimes which are >very >>dangerous for us to imitate. They can rip devotee relationships to shreds. > >I was quoting Srila Prabhupada, not imitating him. I thought quoting one's >spiritual master was alright. Perhaps I can illustrate: > >According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth >only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth >should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand >actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned >that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is >unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands >that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is >the definition of truth. B.G. 10. 4-5, purport >> >>I've been reading Bhagavad-gita with my son and came on this verse which I >think >>all of us -- not just you -- are inclined to forget: >> >>************************ >> >>Bhagavad-gita Chapter 17, Text 15 >> >>Austerity of speech consists in speaking truthfully and beneficially and in >>avoiding speech that offends. One should also recite the Vedas regularly. >> >>PURPORT >> >>One should not speak in such a way as to agitate the minds of others. Of >course, >>when a teacher speaks, he can speak the truth for the instruction of his >students, >>but such a teacher shuld not speak to others who are not his students if he >will >>agitate their minds. This is penance as far as talking is concerned. >Besides >>that, one should not talk naonsense. When speaking in spiritual circles, >one's >>statements must be upheld by scriptures. One should at once quote from >scriptural >>authority to back up what he is saying. >> >>At the same time, such talk should be very pleasurable to the ear. By such >>discussions, one may derive the highest benefit and elevate human >society... >> >I have also been reading the Gita. > >"According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth >only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth >should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand >actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned >that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is >unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands >that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is >the definition of truth." B.G. 10. 4-5, purport >Respectfully, > >Vyapaka dasa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 >I have a difficult time agreeing with you that such an important subject be >swept under the floor. I will never deny that I have no respect for Madhava >Ghosh but that disrespect is born from a very important issue. I was >deliberately attacked for standing up for the cows. The informaton may be >wrong but I am only passing on what I was told by Balabhadra and Chaya but >also observed myself after speaking with many devotees returning from N.V. >The letter has been reproduced in this forum so I don't think anyone can say >that Ihave made up the story. > >Of course, I haven't read Iscowp's response yet. That will be interesting. > >> >>Thank you very much your level headed reminder of Srila Prabhupadas >>teachings. >> >>Although it is difficult to not respond to people who attack us, it is >>important to remain level headed, and humble in our response. >> >>It appears sometimes in this conference that we can get carried away. But >>Prabhupada warns us against such action. >I do apologize for getting carried away sometimes when I was attacked. >> >>Why get caught up in tit for tat texts? It seems to me that much of what >was >>written was done so out of rancor at some past dealings, and should not >have >>been aired in an open forum. Of course if ones goal is to defame another, >>such a forum is ideal, but vaisnavas are supposed to be above such dealings >>no? > >If you think it is simply to defame someone then you have missed the point. >However, it is obvious that in making claims and counter-claims, one's >character is often revealed. >> >>Is humility in vaisinavism such a lost cause? >> >Hopefully not. Let's keep trying. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 >I have a difficult time agreeing with you that such an important subject be >swept under the floor. I will never deny that I have no respect for Madhava >Ghosh but that disrespect is born from a very important issue. I was >deliberately attacked for standing up for the cows. The informaton may be >wrong but I am only passing on what I was told by Balabhadra and Chaya but >also observed myself after speaking with many devotees returning from N.V. >The letter has been reproduced in this forum so I don't think anyone can say >that Ihave made up the story. > >Of course, I haven't read Iscowp's response yet. That will be interesting. > >> >>Thank you very much your level headed reminder of Srila Prabhupadas >>teachings. >> >>Although it is difficult to not respond to people who attack us, it is >>important to remain level headed, and humble in our response. >> >>It appears sometimes in this conference that we can get carried away. But >>Prabhupada warns us against such action. >I do apologize for getting carried away sometimes when I was attacked. >> >>Why get caught up in tit for tat texts? It seems to me that much of what >was >>written was done so out of rancor at some past dealings, and should not >have >>been aired in an open forum. Of course if ones goal is to defame another, >>such a forum is ideal, but vaisnavas are supposed to be above such dealings >>no? > >If you think it is simply to defame someone then you have missed the point. >However, it is obvious that in making claims and counter-claims, one's >character is often revealed. >> >>Is humility in vaisinavism such a lost cause? >> >Hopefully not. Let's keep trying. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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