Guest guest Posted May 3, 1999 Report Share Posted May 3, 1999 At 8:11 -0800 5/3/99, COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote: >[Text 2286421 from COM] > >Well , Madhusudhani, I see your buddy JM is still going after you. I didn't >have time to plow through the whole thing, but he is hard at you on VNN. Maybe I should feel flattered that he consider me such a threat that he has to spend so much energy on trying to discredit me. ;-) I saw that he hinted at a "part 2" in which he'd show that I'm unable to absolve Srila Prabhupada of any responsibility for the gurukula abuses. I can save him the trouble. Although the lion's share of the burden obviously rests with the abusers themselves, I do think that *everyone* who was in ISKCON at the time shoulders some of the blame. So there, Jivanmukta (if someone leaks this to you), I've admitted it. You can take a break from the computer now and go back to helping Sita take care of the family. Didn't you recently have a new baby? > >Funny how all the victimization those GHQ types claimed when their texts were >thrown out in public is conveniently set aside when it is in his percieved >interest to do the same. The whole thing is so silly. This was just an academic discussion of possible ways of dealing with language that makes it impossible to use Srila Prabhupada's books for academic preaching. For one thing, they no longer conform to the professional standards for non-sexist speech. So if Prabhupada *really meant "he or she" when saying he (which is what the convention *used to be*), then that needs to be changed in academic editions. Similarly, some kind of footnotes should be inserted to suggest different ways of understanding what he meant by his "women are less intelligent" statements and the comment about women liking to be raped among others. E.g. is it material intelligence, spiritual intelligence or something completely different? Those are the things scholars will notice and react to. I actually don't really care about whether or not the books are changed. I don't do academic preaching, so it doesn't affect me. However, I do think it's sad if Prabhupada is indeed misrepresented because of language and cultural issues and if this in turn keeps educated peole from wanting to learn about Krsna. That's all. So we (on VAST) simply brainstormed ways of possibly dealing with thisissue in a way which would allow devotee scholars to use the books in academe. Some alternatives were 1) make corrections in the books themselves, if the meanings of words have changed in the past 30 years ( e.g. remember when "gay" meant happy? What if our books had said Lord Caitanya was "gay"? Would we have wanted to keep that?), 2) add footnotes to some versions of the books destined for university classes or bookshelves, or 3) just have disciples write their own books for academe (which is what is happening). I don't think JM's "expose" results in anything besides making him look very silly. He acts as if he has this big secret that he's sharing with the world. But after hearing him accuse me of pushing for gay marriages, pushing condoms, being unchaste and various other accusations I can't even remember any longer, it wouldn't surprise me if most people are starting to get bored just hearing my name. If this is the best he can do, I'm doing pretty well. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 1999 Report Share Posted May 3, 1999 At 8:11 -0800 5/3/99, COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote: >[Text 2286421 from COM] > >Well , Madhusudhani, I see your buddy JM is still going after you. I didn't >have time to plow through the whole thing, but he is hard at you on VNN. Maybe I should feel flattered that he consider me such a threat that he has to spend so much energy on trying to discredit me. ;-) I saw that he hinted at a "part 2" in which he'd show that I'm unable to absolve Srila Prabhupada of any responsibility for the gurukula abuses. I can save him the trouble. Although the lion's share of the burden obviously rests with the abusers themselves, I do think that *everyone* who was in ISKCON at the time shoulders some of the blame. So there, Jivanmukta (if someone leaks this to you), I've admitted it. You can take a break from the computer now and go back to helping Sita take care of the family. Didn't you recently have a new baby? > >Funny how all the victimization those GHQ types claimed when their texts were >thrown out in public is conveniently set aside when it is in his percieved >interest to do the same. The whole thing is so silly. This was just an academic discussion of possible ways of dealing with language that makes it impossible to use Srila Prabhupada's books for academic preaching. For one thing, they no longer conform to the professional standards for non-sexist speech. So if Prabhupada *really meant "he or she" when saying he (which is what the convention *used to be*), then that needs to be changed in academic editions. Similarly, some kind of footnotes should be inserted to suggest different ways of understanding what he meant by his "women are less intelligent" statements and the comment about women liking to be raped among others. E.g. is it material intelligence, spiritual intelligence or something completely different? Those are the things scholars will notice and react to. I actually don't really care about whether or not the books are changed. I don't do academic preaching, so it doesn't affect me. However, I do think it's sad if Prabhupada is indeed misrepresented because of language and cultural issues and if this in turn keeps educated peole from wanting to learn about Krsna. That's all. So we (on VAST) simply brainstormed ways of possibly dealing with thisissue in a way which would allow devotee scholars to use the books in academe. Some alternatives were 1) make corrections in the books themselves, if the meanings of words have changed in the past 30 years ( e.g. remember when "gay" meant happy? What if our books had said Lord Caitanya was "gay"? Would we have wanted to keep that?), 2) add footnotes to some versions of the books destined for university classes or bookshelves, or 3) just have disciples write their own books for academe (which is what is happening). I don't think JM's "expose" results in anything besides making him look very silly. He acts as if he has this big secret that he's sharing with the world. But after hearing him accuse me of pushing for gay marriages, pushing condoms, being unchaste and various other accusations I can't even remember any longer, it wouldn't surprise me if most people are starting to get bored just hearing my name. If this is the best he can do, I'm doing pretty well. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 1999 Report Share Posted May 4, 1999 On 03 May 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote: > > So we (on VAST) simply brainstormed ways of possibly dealing with this issue in a way which would allow devotee scholars to use the books in academe. Some alternatives were 1) make corrections in the books themselves, if the meanings of words have changed in the past 30 years (e.g. remember when "gay" meant happy? What if our books had said Lord Caitanya was "gay"? Would we have wanted to keep that?) > Kinda difficult to imagine intelligent, or even less intelligent people, getting terribly confused over something like that. Concerning editting the BBT books, at this point, I'd suggest less is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 1999 Report Share Posted May 4, 1999 On 03 May 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote: > > So we (on VAST) simply brainstormed ways of possibly dealing with this issue in a way which would allow devotee scholars to use the books in academe. Some alternatives were 1) make corrections in the books themselves, if the meanings of words have changed in the past 30 years (e.g. remember when "gay" meant happy? What if our books had said Lord Caitanya was "gay"? Would we have wanted to keep that?) > Kinda difficult to imagine intelligent, or even less intelligent people, getting terribly confused over something like that. Concerning editting the BBT books, at this point, I'd suggest less is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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