Initiation (?)

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> > Where does it say that only uttama adhikari is supposed to be

> > initiating in our parampara?

>

> I am not sure where I got it from. Do you believe that to be false? If you

> believe that a madhyama-adhikari can be an authorized spiritual master

> belonging to guru-tattva, what is that based on?

 

 

It is that, so far, I have simply never seen any evidence that

would confirm something like that, i.e. that only uttama-adhikari

is to be giving initiations in our Sampradaya. On the other hand,

I have encounted several instances where the possibility of even

kanistha-adhikari becoming a guru is an open option. Like:

 

"One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained

the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava

situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but

such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be undersood

that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life

under his unsufficient guidence. Therefore a disciple should be careful

to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master."

(NOI Text 5)

 

Obviously, an uttama-adhikari is the best. But the other kinds

of are aslo there, they are not rejected as unbona fide.

They are just of an infereior type, but are nevertheless the

factual spiritual events.

 

When speaking about spiritual master here, Srila Prabhupada's

emphasy is on *guidence*. Not on formal initiation. And in that

regard, as confirmed in the CC, one may have unlimited number of

shiksa-gurus.

 

 

> I know you have been

> checking these things out thoroughly, because I believe that these things

> are also important to you. I hope you can help me with my understanding of

> this basic issue.

>

 

I think we can help each other, since every of us got a bit of

a valuable understanding that can be exchanged among.

 

 

 

> I just stated what I stated, namely that my diksa initiation is not valid.

 

As known to me, there are certain conditions that give right to

a disciple to reject a guru who deviets from the line of the

Guru-parampara. In ISCKON, a re-initiation is a matter of a

"daily life".

 

 

However, here we are in the field of _personal_ decisions.

The re-evaluation of one's own relationships. That is quite

different from finding that, because the initiating guru

felt, therefore all inititations that occured till that moment

were thus proven to be not valid. Are we going now to strip down

all the brahmin-threads and neck-beads from all those devotees

who were wearing them for 10, 15, 20 years? Take these devotees

down from puja services, out from cooking, from giving SB clasess,

call them again with their "karmi" names, and so on. And put them

back into bhakta-classes till they get another initiation from

another "bona fide ISCKON" guru? If the claim is that those

initiatons were not valid, then that's what you got - a couple

of thousands of devotees posing with unvalid beads and brahmana

threads for two decades, while they were all the time never even

validly initiated into practicing KC. Too contradictory. Our

godbrother, Vaidyanath prabhu, has been just accepted as a full

voting GBC man. A bit too high position in ISCKON for somebody

who is to be considered to even never received the valid initiation.

 

 

But I certainly may understand your decision to proclaim your

initiation as not valid anymore. After all, it's us who were

left by him. It is the feeling of betrayal that pains, not

really his "proving to be not uttama-adhikari", or fall down.

Anybody in this world may fall down, the chances are all there.

It is rather the surprise that quite some don't fall.

 

 

> That does not block me from advancing in spiritual life, though, I just

> have to understand that I have to make further efforts to actually be

> connected. But that is probably so even for those who receive diksa from a

> bona fide guru.

 

There is nothing to block one from advancing in spiritual life.

Nothing but one himself. The Supersoul is just next to the soul.

There is nothing else in between the two, but the desire of

the soul. That is all what is needed to advance - a genuine

desire. Then even if the initiating guru leaves you, you are

not left by Krsna, or put back by Him "into the beginning",

having all your devotional service to Him rejected, all

your connections to the Parampara suddenly ripped into the

pieces...

 

 

But what do you mean with "those who receive diksa from

a bona fide guru"? There are presently some 100 initiating

gurus in ISCKON that are understood to be bona fide. I don't

think, however, that they all are uttama adhikaris. Some may

happen to fall down in future, some may not. And even those

who die "unfallen" (or even as uttamas!) might not been uttama

adhikaris all the time, during their giving initiations (that

means - presently). I don't even think that everybody in ISKCON

is in such illusion to believe that a guru they are taking

initiation from must be an uttama-adhikari.

 

 

 

ys mnd