Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

> One thing more. Think about that Harikesa Maharaja (former)

> was named by Srila Prabhupada, along with 10 others, to carry

> on with initiating disciples after Prabhupada' soon departure.

 

Those 11 were asked to perform ritvik initiations on Prabhupadas behalf

while he was present. He never instructed them (the 11) specificaly to take

their own disciples.

 

Yes Srila Prabhupada did say that all his disciples should become guru, but

he meant that they should be qualified also.

 

 

> Thus your question "Was he ever bona fide" on that way

> may just well turn into calling in question Prabhupada's

> competency.

 

Not at all, because they were only instructed by him to carry on initiations

on his behalf while he was present, so they were simply priests.

 

Srila Prabhupada did definatly make at least one pure devotee, HH Gour

Govinda Swami, and of course we have Jayananda prabhu, who knows who else

their may be? If we are NOT REALLY LOOKING for pure help, but are just kind

of toodling along in ISKCON enjoying the feasts, enjoying the kirtans, and

not being really serious, then maybe Lord Krsna will not reveal to us the

pure souls.

 

It's right that it is not the etiquette for the disciple to question if his

guru is qualified or not AFTER he has been initiated, but it is incumbent

for the gurus themselves to admit where they are really at. At least the

guru should answer the bonafide questions of the disciple. If done with REAL

humility, one can point out personaly to his guru if his guru appears to

have deviated somewhat. This happened once with my gurumaharaj, when a

devotee really humbly approached him and mentioned that he had noticed that

he was not pronouncing the holy name properly. My gurumaharaj was very

grateful for that sincere devotees concern, and as a result wrote the Japa

reform notebook. Incidentaly HH Satsvarupa Maharaja does not claim to be an

uttama adhikary.

 

As far as I am gathering, according to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

Maharaja a person who's pure devotee guru has left such as Bhaktivinoda

Thakur, or even Srila Prabhupada if he did not yet become realised, then he

needs to HEAR the teachings of Srila Prabhupada from a pure devotee (thats

what Bhaktisiddhanta says in several ways in that brilliant article).

 

It is the nature of vaisnavas that they always seek pure shelter. So what is

the harm for devotees to seek shelter, of each other and of other pure

souls? If there is confusion regarding the teachings of the acarya, Srila

Prabhupada, and if there appear to be controversies, who would be better to

clear them up, than a pure devotee, who could give us an unambigous answer,

because he is actualy with Krsna, in the highest sense?

 

If our guru is not already on the highest stage, but if he is prayerful, and

always seeking the shelter of the supreme, then surely the Supreme Lord

Krsna WILL send help. Krsna DOES care about us, and if we are sincere, will

send a person who we can love, and who will never replace or overshadow any

love we actualy have for Srila Prabhupada.

 

One of the symptoms of a vaisnava is humility, so if we see that, it is a

good indication. If we see false pride, we should probabaly be alarmed.

 

Unfortunately many many disciples may be having a lot of doubts now after

all the falldowns of other supposedly 'uttama' gurus.

 

As has been mentioned, If there is no uttama guru present you can accept a

lesser qualified guru, but that is not the best. But at the very least that

guru should be humble enough to admit that he is not an uttama. Of course if

we are not ourselves an uttama adhikary it is almost impossible to know who

is one. But at least we can say that if someone appears to have a lot of

pride, that is a bad sign (but you have to really look to see that, and not

delude yourself).

 

It is very important to remember that above all a vaisnava is humble in his

dealings with other true vaisnavas or at least aspiring vaisnavas. Of course

we should not be duped by false humility, simply digging a hole in the

Temple room floor to get 3 inches lower than the rest, or other easily

imitatable falsehoods will not do.

 

YS

Sd