Initiation (?)

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>

> > Thus you are completely eliminating out of picture siksa and

> > siksa gurus. I don't know what sastric quotes are required

> > to prove that one may be nevertheless connected to Krsna

> > inspite of fall down of the initiating guru.

>

> Did I not say that I think you are right about that?

 

Sorry. I thought that unless you get the sastric quote

as an exact proof, you won't discuss it further.

I misunderstood, and tried to explain why I can't supply

so easily such proof for you.

 

 

 

> > By reading what Srila Prabhupada said on initiation, one can

> > find that Prabhupada speaks about initiation as the moment

> > of transformation of a person into spiritual realm. However

> > the further maintenance of such position lays not anymore on

> > initiation itself, but on further _practice_.

>

> Sure! Did I say something different?

 

The question that you asked implied "something different."

Your question placed the disciple's spiritual well-being (the

connection with Krsna) on initiating guru's continuos well-being.

This was still the remaining reflection of the same comment

on that question of yours.

 

 

 

 

> > > I question whether instructions given by someone who is not a

> > > maha-bhagavata can ever bring you to become a maha-bhagavata.

> >

 

> Do you think that was a stupid question? Maybe I am blind, but I cannot

> understand why that is stupid.

 

I don't think it's stupid. I give the example of Bivamangala Thakura

accepting the instruction from a prostitute and thus becoming

perfected. For him it did not matter that she was not maha-bhagavata.

He took the instruction into the heart. That was my original point,

if I would take seriously just a portion of the good instruction

received from "HKS" I would be a pure devotee so far. You questioned

wether that was possible, and I gave the example that, yes, it's

quite possible. Gold is gold, wether in the authorized gold-shop,

or with "dealers" on the street. Just that for those who are

not sure about what's gold, then better to be lucky to enter an

authorized gold-shop.

 

 

 

>

> You may be right. But without following Prabhupada and / or another pure

> devotee, we cannot get there, isn't it? We need the mercy of someone who

> already is a pure devotee to become a pure devotee, isn't it?

 

In the quote that I was providing on that not only uttama-adhikari

can become a guru, Srila Prabhupada states:

 

"...and it should be understood that they cannot advance very

well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient

guidance"

 

So, it is not that "they cannot". Just, not very well. Their

road may be more "bumpy" than wide and straight "Autobahn"

 

 

But what is the "mercy of a pure devotee to become pure devotee"

exactly that you are referring on? How does it work?

 

 

 

ys mnd