Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

> So, does this negate the spiritual advancement of thousand and thousands

> of disciples of Srila Prabhupada who never had the opportunity to HEAR the

> pure devotees instruction , directly, personally from his LIPS? Virtually

> all of the disciples had by far a majority of association with Srila

> Prabhupada through his books and tapes (gramaphone?). Some never HEARD

> personally from his LIPS instructions for spiritual life.

 

Good point. I am not at all qualified to answer that question, I dont know

the answer. This makes me somewhat confused, because we understand that Guru

is one, and that they all teach the same thing, siddhanta. So why does it

appear that Bhaktisiddhanta makes such a strong point, if it is not correct?

 

>

> Did he ask us to distribute his books by the millions and millions, but

> after he left the planet they were useless with out his personal

> association?

 

I am not at all saying that they are useless. Far from it they are the law

books for the next ten thousand years. But even law books require judges to

interpret, and what qualifications must a judge have to interpret Srila

Prabhupadas books? I mean it is not as if he has not given us enough, but

each individual case can be so complex, with its different motivations,

hidden motivations, time, place, etc, it is impossible to list every

possibility, so surely that is a strong argument for the need for superior

living guidance? Somehow I feel that we are not being fed the full

conclusions of siddhanta, if we were, then how could we argue over such

basic points. We both agree that our top brass have failed miserably to do

anything about varnasrama, and most of us seem to agree that the movement is

in a mess, so something must be amiss.

 

> Also, with all due respect for my guru maharaja's guru maharaja, I do not

> remember once ever reading Bhaktisiddhanta's Harmonist papers in the BTG,

> or other publications of Srila Prabhupada. Cetainly Srila Prabhupada

> respected those teachings but he never made it mainstream ISKCON reading

> material.

 

Apparently there is a letter of 69-11-16, (I dont know to who) where

Prabhupada states "Articles written by my Guru Maharaja can be published

without any hesitation". Maybe someone could check it on folio.

>

> Your feelings toward these few quotes of Bhaktisiddhanta make it sound

> like everything we have is dependent upon them. I humbly disagree.

 

Well if I were more of a scholar and had a bit more time, I would try to

find more sources. From what I have understood this is siddhanta. Apparently

HH Gour Govinda swami presents this very strongly, and felt it was his duty

to promote in ISKCON, according to Srila Prabhupadas teachings. We should

all KNOW siddhanta as a basic first. I will try to get more quotes if you

like. But will my posting more quotes really help, that is my point.

>

> My opinion is that Srila Prabhupada is fully accessible for all human

> beings on this planet as a pure devotee and guru through his books for

> eternal time or as long as his books and lectures are available in their

> unadulterated versions. He also gives us association with hundreds of

> other pure devotees in his books, i.e., the mahajanas, goswamis,

> guru-parampara, etc.

 

But you don't mean diksa guru right? (I always assumed you were not a ritvik

proponent) You do also mention there that he gives us access to other pure

devotees, parampara etc. So if the siddhanta does state that we need to HEAR

from pure devotees, would you reconsider?

 

Really prabhu, I have the utmost respect for you, and your position as Srila

Prabhupadas loving disciple. I just get the sense that we in ISKCON have

been kept in the dark for so long, and fed that smelly stuff (and I am NOT

refering to prasadam), that we have missed out on some basic knowledge. Our

movement is breaking apart at the seams, how can that be, if we read the

same books? In my mind leadership is missing, I mean the real thing, and

without authoritative pure leadership, which only a mahabhagavata could

give, how will we ever agree?

 

And really I dont quite understand what in the world would be wrong in

having the association of wonderful pure hearted, Krsna Loving sadhus, to

help us all home. Wouldn't you give anything to have Srila Prabhupada again,

to massage his feet, and wait for his smile or chastisment? Even if you can

get that through prayer, or meditation, wouldnt it be great to have a real

unambiguous, effervescent, golden hearted prema bhakta, in our midst? Isnt

that worth aspiring for, as opposed to endless politics, innuendo, cheating,

self glorification etc?

 

Anyway I think I am getting the impression that a few people wish I would

just shut up about this topic, and rather than loose valuable friends, I

will do just that. Me and my big mouth (well actualy fingers in this case).

 

Sheesh samba, catch a grip!

 

Sorry folks

 

YS

Samba das