Initiation (?)

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> > Without surrender to such a person, you cant get anywhere. It is

> > described that guru gives two things. Kripa (mercy) and Vanchana

> > (cheating). If your guru tells you to do some service, and you say,

> > 'well guru maharaja, I would like to do that, but I have this problem',

> > so he says 'what do YOU want to do then', 'Oh gurumaharaj I want to do

> > this thing and that thing'. So he will agree, 'Ok you do'. So that means

> > you got cheated.

>

> Well, for that matter, it doesn't have to be necessarily a sadhu, a

> spotless infallible Vaisnava, in order to get from the proper engagement

> in Prabhupada's mission, does it? I am more than sure that your good self

> would be quite capable to tell someone "No, 'this thing and that thing'

> that you want to do is not good, the service to Krsna is better for you."

 

This is where it gets interesting. The idea is not just to give you

something to do. It is to give you something according to your psyco

physical nature. Something that is good for your personal development

according to guna and karma AND something that is good for the movement. Now

how can I know what is good for your guna and karma? I can try and guess

(all a Kanistha guru can do) but if I am self realised I KNOW what you need

because Krsna who is in your heart told me. So therfore I am in a position

to give you a PERFECT service one that is good for you, and good for the

mission. I know how much you can surrender, and I give you a servie

accordingly.

 

>

> All the gurus in ISKCON (regardless of wether they are/not uttamas) are

> giving Krpa and not Vanchana, so long so they are engaging their disciples

> in some of aspects of service to Prabhupada and Krsna.

 

It is not what the guru GIVES. It is what you accept. If you accept whatever

service he gives you, without any motivation, and he is a pure devotee, you

will get mercy, and make actual TANGIBLE spritual advancement. Tears will

come to your eyes when you chant, you will rise through the different stages

anartha nivriti etc.

 

Anyone can tell you to do something, and they probably have, but was it

right? If the guru is not perfect, he will not be able to situate his

disciple perfectly. Of course if the disciple does not accept the gurus

order, then he can NEVER be situated rightly, at least not until he

surenders. We might know what WE want to do, but that may not be good for

us, it may be based on some material desire for name and fame or whatever,

so a real guru can see through that, and situate us rightly.

 

> I don't know why are you constantly insisting on appearance of

> a sadhu, pure infallible bhakta (that we got to pray for) as

> the only way "for getting somewhere". I find this to be unfair

> to both thousands of ISKON devotees who are giving their youth

> (and now even old/er age) in service to Prabhupada's mission

> of spreading KC, and to their gurus who are engaging them in

> that.

 

I am not the originator of this idea. This idea is siddhanta. I did not make

it up.

 

As for getting 'somewhere' I am sure they can go somewhere. They can go a

long way if they want, it is all based on desire.

 

All of those thousands of persons need not lament at all because if in the

course of all that they are doing, they get more of a desire to learn how to

love Lord Krsna, which is the goal right? Krsna Prem. So if that is their

goal, Lord Krsna will NEVER desert them, contrarily he WILL award them with

a pure devotee, who will be specificaly empowered to take them home.

 

I already gave the example of Dhruva maharaja. Krsna could have landed right

there and said 'Here I am'. But no, he sent Narada. (note. he did not send

Jayatirtha)

 

So what is unfair? Is praying too much of an endeavour. If it is too much

for someone to pray for the Lords help, they aint never going nowhere except

down. If they dont have a burning desire to see the lord, to touch His lotus

Feet, to KNOW him, they might as well not bother. Where do they want to go

anyway?

 

Why would they do all of that service if Krsna is not the goal. There is a

process for getting Krsna, it is simple, it is not ritvik philosophy, it is

simply that we have to get to know somebody who KNOWS Krsna, and He can give

Krsna to us.

 

Simple.