Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

> > Oh, why not?

> > How many more years/decades one got to be Prabhupada's "loyal

> > follower" in Prabhupada's mission, in order to get even the access to

> > sabdha-brahma in his books?

>

> You can get it tommorow if you realy want it. We can all surrender right

> now, but we dont really want to, we are attached.

>

 

We are waiting on an nitya-siddha acarya, remember? Without him,

forget it. I doubt such one will pass by my window next morning.

But who knows... Krsna is unpredictable.

 

 

 

> > What's the use then? The only way is to secure an acarya for

> > guru, why then restrict for "inside" only? Isn't that the

> > Principle (find and uttama and surrender to him) is what counts only? If

> > it haven't work in ISCKON in 20 years, let's then not waste our

> > remaining precious time.

>

> I am surprised you are saying this, as an ISKCON devotee. Mind you it is

> difficult nowadays to know who said what when, as new evidences and quotes

> seem to be surfacing everyday. Srila Prabhupada did not want us to look

> outside of ISKCON. Why would he bother setting up this movement if we were

> to go outside. That is not very chaste.

 

 

But what I have to do with Srila Prabhupada? "Chastity"??? What are

you talking about? There isn't even some actual connection in between

me and Prabhupada, and you are saying "chastity". That's something

for a wife to cultivate toward her husband, and for disciple to his

guru. Or for granddisciple to grandGuru.

 

An "ISCKON devotee"? You mean, devotee of ISCKON? Does it connects

me to Guru-parampara and Krsna?

 

 

> Srila Prabhupada has given us

> everything. If you want to know what Srila Prabhupada wants us to do then

> READ (yes I did say it) his books, because they are full of very important

> instructions on etiquette, and on the process of surrender. If you want to

> know more about the process of Krsna consciousness READ the Bhakti

> rasamrita Sindhu. They all talk about how to approach a lving guru, and

> learn from him.

>

 

I guess Narayana Mahraja is a _living_ guru. I didn't say "Bhaktivinode

Thakura".

 

 

> No service done in ISKCON is a waste of time, but it is not necesarily

> devotional service.

 

Pardon me, service to *whom*? To Krsna? One can't serve Him

directly, as you said it before.

 

You meant to say "but it is not necesarily *pure* devotional

service"?

 

 

> Devotion means pure.

 

You are really black&white.

 

Have you ever heard for expression "pure devotion" and "pure

devotional service" and "pure devotee" and "pure goodness"...??

You know why these expression exist? To distinguish "pure devotion"

from devotion that is not yet pure. And pure devotee from one

that still got some desires of another kind. Like that.

 

 

> Do you cry when you chant? Do you

> cry when you are serving the lord on Sankirtan. Do you have to constantly

> drag your mind away from the Lords lotus feet, to your service properly?

> Do you curse your blinking eyelids during arati?

 

Yes, I do.

(anybody there out looking for a nitya-siddha to get initiation from?)

 

 

> That is devotion,

> everything else is mixed to one degree or another.

 

(you are beating any of those "half_empty_glass_ pessimists; you

are "one_per-cent_empty_glass" pessimist)

 

If somebody would offer you a lump of gold that is, my goodness,

just 97 % pure, you would, guess what, say "That's not gold. It's

everything else"

 

 

>

> Actualy I posted Bhaktisiddhantas words as they were. I did not add any

> modification. You are bringing in another aspect, looking outside ISKCON.

 

 

Oh, dear... I was simply accepting Bhaktisiddhanta's words as they

were: "Secure the guiding grace of the acarya". So, Narayana

Maharaja. Who is bringing "inside-outside" aspect here? What

do I know what's "inside-outside ISCKON", I simply belive

to Bhaktisiddhanta's words. What was that again "outside ISCKON"

that Bhaktisiddhanta spoke about?

 

 

> But if Prabhupada does not want that we have to be sensitive, dont you

> think?

 

Who "we"? I am not his disciple. I am not his granddisciple. I got

no relationship. What is that I got to be "sensitive" for? To not

go to a sadhu because Srila Prabhupada instituted ISCKON?

 

 

>

> You are very good at sarcasm prabhu. Actualy I agree, I can understand why

> many devotees are leaving ISKCON. They are fried with leaders who did not

> give them any proper training, by establishing siddhanta, and did not give

> a good example of simple sadhu life. I have met Narayana Maharaja on a

> number of occaisions in the early 90's and was very impressed with his

> simplicity. ISKCON leaders could have learned a lot from him. Actualy

> prabhupada did want us to pick up many positive things from the Gaudiya

> Math, but he did not want us to leave ISKCON.

>

 

That I also can agree on, those reasons for many to leave ISKCON

and turn elsewhere, as you said it.

 

But personally, I am presently more fried with concept "no access

to Prabhupada and his books without nitya-siddha as your guru".

 

 

> I try to be faithfull to Srila Prabhupada, even after 23 years.

 

What else is there for you? That's the instruction you got (I

suppose so) from your bona-fide (that means nitya-siddha) Guru

Maharaja. You are Prabhupada's *granddisiple*. You ought to be

faithful to him.

 

 

 

> I

> personaly do not think I have made any spiritual advancement, because I am

> too attached to material life, and because I am afraid of putting myself

> to the test of real surrender.

 

 

 

 

ys mnd