Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 On 14 May 1999, Samba das wrote: > If you want less then take someone who is > less than a completely self realised soul. In another text I posted the > various levels of advancement from Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, and there it is > clearly stated that an uttama adhikary is the one who has Krsna Prema. If > you want less then settle for a Madhyama guru, or you can go for a Kanistha, > or why not settle for my freind Paddy? (address available) May I ask who you have accepted as your completely self-realized soul/uttama-adhikari. It wasn't Srila Prabhupada correct? He was "gone" before you had a chance to personally serve him and receive personal, direct, living guru instructions from him right? Then if it wasn't Srila Prabhupada who was the other uttama adhikari for the last 20 plus years from whom you have made your spiritual progress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 Thanks for your prompt response Prabhu. On 14 May 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > And how and when was it that they received diksa? Was there a particular > > ceremony which I missed? > > Srila Prabhupada routinely used rittviks to give ceremonies when he wasn't > there. > Usually he would chant on beads and send them for the ceremony, though later, > he > designated Kirtananda and others to chant on beads on his behalf and then > Kirtanananda would send the beads. Is this what diksa means? Chanting on someone's beads? I thought that was HariNama initiation or something like that. Doesn't diksa require surrendering to a living guru and serving him personally/directly with inquiries and instructions? Did you receive your knowledge of Krsna directly from Srila Prabhupada or was it primarily through his books and tapes and other devotees? Also, if it was KSwami who chanted on the beads does this negate the diksa because of his subsequent major fall down? > > About June, 1974, in NV. Srila Prabhupada was there personally and did hand > me > my beads directly. I never had that happen to me. Did I miss the diksa bus? > > How was it "performed". Did you speak/hear directly/personally to Srila > > Prabhupada when it happened. > > > Not other than the question he asked "What are the 4 regulative principles?" > which I did manage to croak out. Then he said my name, but I didn't really > understand what it was exactly, only Madhava something, until later when the > letter or whatever came with it in writing. Is this the meaning of diksa initiation? Why didn't Srila Prabhupada arrange to meet every single one of his disciples personally/directly to give diksa association/instructions? When Srila Prabhupada visited each temple wasn't it possible to set up a room in each temple where Srila Prabhupada could have sat and received each disciple in a temple one by one and given them direct/personal/bodily instructions/diksa? > > For all his initiations, hewas physically present on the same planet at the > same > time and aware of each individual candidate with a veto power, just sometimes > he > used agents due to logistical difficulties. Did he ever "veto" anyone after his trusted ritviks sponsored a prospective candidate? Did he get a detailed biography of each candidate's qualifications so he knew the intimate details of this prospective disciple's service attitude and level of surrender before granting initiation? Or did he know the candidate because of his connection to Paramatma? Or did he rely upon his ritviks to train the prospective disciple through instructions from the guru's books and lectures. If he knew each one of his disciples because he was "physically present" on the same planet why then did he not veto Kirtanananda's, Bhavananda's, Jayatirtha's, Harikesha's, etc. ad nauseum, initiations knowing that they would commit such offenses in the future? If Srila Prabhupada is now preaching on a neighboring planet a few thousand miles away cannot his ritviks continue to train prospective disciples the same way they did previously and present the candidates to Srila Prabhpada's murti in the temple? Does he refuse to accept our service to his murti in the temple because he is not "here" to tell us if we are serving his murti properly? Certainly our seva is not spotless. Should we take away all murti's of Srila Prabhupada? Or does he trust us to serve his murti sufficiently? Does he trust us to sufficiently train prospective disciples in the same way we did before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 On 14 May 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > > > And you are saying that association cannot be obtained through the books? > > Therefore no one has made advancement in ISKCON since Srila Prabhupada left > > the planet? > > If you want to learn how to drive a car, it is very beneficial to read the > rules > of the State, to read a book by the most expert driver on all driving tips. > Still, it is best if you have someone in the car with you the first couple of > times around the block, even if their knowledge is not as complete as the > books, > or even if they aren't a world class driver themselves. Thanks for the response, Prabhu. I was speaking of "pure devotee, personal/living" association which was being alledged as the "only" means of making progress. I love association with devotees. I would never have made it this far in spiritual life were it not for my association with Srila Prabhupada's representatives, many of whom became close personal friends to this day. I really do not see why anything has to change from the program which we, Prabhupada disciples, experienced when he was "present". Rarely was there even a glimpse of Srila Prabhupada "living" for many of his disciples. We all worked together everyday in the temple or around it, reading his books everyday, serving his mission, cleaning and maintaining his asramas, etc. Diksa was rarely spoken of. If everyone had demanded that each disciple should receive "personal/living guru" direct, bodily service to Srila Prabhupada so they could personally speak to him, inquire from him, receive answers from him, receive personal instruction/orders from him, what do you think the GBC would have told everyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 On 14 May 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > I never once was disciplined "personally/directly/bodily" by Srila Prabhupada > > and neither were thousands of my godbrothers. What of us, Prabhu? We have > only > > had his indirect instructions given to us via his authorized representatives > > and mostly his books. Did he not accept any of our service? > > I thought you said he sauced you for going along with Tokyo Rose fandango? > That > sounded pretty personal. Never did he he say to me directly, "Janesvara dasa, you are rascal for..." He told his ritviks that we in the NY temple were foolish if we went along with Bali Mardan's nonsense. They let us know about it in no uncertain terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.