Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

> > NOI text 5 (p 48+)

> > "One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the

> > platform of uttama adhikary... The uttama adhikari or highest devotee,

> > is one who is very advanced in devotional service. An uttama adhikari

> > is not interested in blaspheming others, his heart is completely clean,

> > and he has attained the realised state of unnalloyed Krsna

> > Consciousness. According to Rupa Goswami, the association and service of

> > such a mahabhagavata, or perfect vaisnava, are most desirable..."

> >

>

> One should not become a guru unless he is uttama... but if one

> becomes, what then?

>

> This quote doesn't make an evidence for that I asked you for.

 

What would make such an evidence for you? You start to remind me of me, who

was presented with a lot of good arguments, but who still did not want to

get it. The above quote is quite clear if you "want" it to be.

 

> And after all, nowhere it says that if someone's *initiating*

> guru is a madhyama-adhikari (or even kanistha) that the initiated

> disciples of such guru can't still accept an another devotee, a

> *nitya-siddha*, as their *siksa* guru, and thus make even the

> further advancement till "top".

 

That is what I have been convinced of by your good self and Madhava Gosh. I

agree that this sounds like it is possible. But how do you know whether

someone is a madhyama-adhikari? That is also a very high status, and it is a

level from which one generally does not fall down. How many gurus in ISKCON

can we be sure that is on that level?

 

> > The 'principle' is that if you want Krsna Prema you have to approach one

> > who has it, surrender to him, serve and please him. Then if he is

> > pleased he will impart the essence of spiritual knowledge into your

> > heart. That is the principle.

>

> This doesn't adress my request even closely.

 

But it is a good point, which I at least shall take to heart. It sounds to

me like you are getting more than a little cynical with Samba here. I have

to say that I appreciate many of his points, and I am happy that he dares to

speak so straight-forward, even if he obviously becomes a bit unpopular

amongst some for what he is saying. If you want to misunderstand him, I can

see how that is possible, but I think he has caught some points which few

others here may have caught, and they don't all seem crazy to me...