Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 Dear Prabhu. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. First of all please accept my apology if you have felt offended by my earlier intrudings. Certainly everyone here is far above my neophyte understanding and I am honored of having your presence right here in my home by Krishnas mercy. Hopefully I will learn something, especially about the real meaning of diksa. > The conclusion of what I am trying to say, is that the gurus should be > impeccably honest as to the level of spiritual advancement they have, and > should not mislead their followers. They should establish the actual > siddhantas, and work with their disciples towards those. Very nicely said. However what would an Uttama-adhikari honestly say about his own spiritual advanchement? If they are only > madhyama guru, they should direct their disciples to pray along with them > for a Prema bhakta, who can deliver them all to Lord Krsna. This of course > would not be in exclusion to all other ISKCON work, but simply an > addition. Did not the Lord already send that Prema bhakta? Your foolish servant Gunamani d.d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 > "Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his > mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja's diksa-guru." > > It was only due to the *social* customs that she couldn't > become Dhruva's diksa-guru. Therefore Druva got to have > somebody else (so happened to be Narada Muni). Nothing to > do with her not being an uttama-bhakata. > Just like Bhaktivinde Thakur wouldn't give diksa to Bhaktisiddhanta because he was his son. > Guru is one. Siksa or diksa. Our line is indeed rather *siksa* > line. > > However, your application of this example (that you are using to > confirm your "fact" about our sankirtan devotees) would read: > > - Suniti was a bogus guru, so Dhruva got to get another one > to get initiation from. > - Dhruva accrues pious credit that results in getting a real > guru, and thus he may start the actual spiritual advancement. > > How differently from Srila Prabhupada's view. > > One could also pay some attention to possibility of disciples' > bringing back to Godhead their gurus. As the good sons are said > to be the valuable asset to their father, so good disciples > are the valuable asset to their guru. > > > I wonder if you really understand what principle means. We follow > four > > principles, and they are very rigid. Principle means rigid, as does > > siddhanta. Siddhanta means the actual unchangable meaning, you cant > go > > aroun it, no matter how difficult it may appear. Surrender is not > meant to > > be easy. We can say oh spiritual life is meant to be simple. > Christianity > > is simple. Simply accept Jesus in your heart. But Gaudiya Vaisnava > > siddhanta does not say, simply accept Prabhupada into your heart. > > > > Please provide the guru-sadhu-sastra reference for the "principle" > that unless one's diksa guru is not an infallible nitya-siddha, > he can't "begin actual spiritual advancement". That he can't > be connected to Guru-parampara (Srila Prabhupada, for us). > > Then we may go discussing our understandings of "what principle > means". > > > But the entire point is that if you really want Krsna, you will get > him. > > If you are sincere he will make the arangements for you, there is no > loss, > > but you have to follow the instructions of the acaryas that is all. > > That is self-evident, though. > > ys mnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 > > > Prabhu.. thank you... now I know who is my real guru. I should have > realised > it all along. I was determined to find Krsna, and my freind Paddy > O'Flaherty, showed me the way. He directed me toward the Krsna Temple. > He > certainly has potency, as he can down 16 pints of strong ale in a > single > evening. I shall immediately approach him for Siksa. You don't have to approach him again, he has already acted as siksa. However, you can't advance beyond his level of advancement, so keep looking for other siksas, even though you should continue to think favorable of him for the aid he did give you. Have you not heard > however, that Kali has also taken shelter in our movement, and > sometimes > manifests in so called devotees, to disrupt Prabhupadas movement (can > anyone > give a reference to that?). The danger is within. We have to be very > careful > who we accept. > Search of Veda base for Kali not "age of kali" not kali-yuga and movement yielded 45 hits. The only thing close was the following, which talks about devotees of Kali, not Kali directly. You might have heard that story from Jayatirtha. Prabhupada: Devotees.... To become devotee is not so cheap thing. You don't think that because you have got a tilaka you have become devotee. Why do you think like that? Pusta Krsna: Jaya Prabhupada. Prabhupada: That Bhaktivinoda Thakura, eita eka kalira chela, nake tilaka, galaya mala:(?) "Here is another follower of Kali. He has got tilaka and mala." Sahaja bhajana kacen mamu, sanga laiya parera wala (?): "He is worshiping, bhajana, taking another's wife." Sahaja bhajana kacen mamu, sanga laiya parera wala, ei ta eka kalira chela: "Here is a servant of Kali. Simply he has changed his dress with tilaka and mala." Bhaktivinoda Thakura says. If you take tilaka and mala and do all nonsense things, then you are not a devotee. You are Kali-chela. To become a devotee is not so easy thing. >>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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