Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

On 17 May 1999, Gunamani dd wrote:

 

> I think it is important for all of

> us to remember that many have been hurt by wrongdoings in the past, I have

> seen it too. However that does not mean which I hope you will agree with

> that all present day guru's are bogus.

 

 

Wrongdoings were present when Srila Prabhupada was among us. Does this mean he

was bogus? Not in my opinion. It does not excuse the wrongdoer, however.

 

I do not know all of the gurus in ISKCON currently and even if I did I

probably would not be the best judge of "bonafide-ness". I would probably

measure them against my own guru maharaja and they would have a hard time

measuring up to that. Does this mean they can't be gurus? It depends totally

on what they teach, in my opinion. If they are repeating Srila Prabhupada's

words and teachings exactly then they are guru. Guru is one. There may be some

gurus with these qualifications in ISKCON. I have full confidence that my guru

maharaja's program is fully capable of developing pure devotee/gurus.

 

But if they are concocting and not teaching those things which Srila

Prabhupada recommended for his movement and spreading the Krsna consciousness

movement throughout the world; then they are deviants and will not serve a

disciple well. They may be devotees but that alone does not make them guru.

 

In my opinion, if current gurus are not actively, constantly, daily,

promoting, preaching, teaching and supporting the priority of recognition and

implementation of daiva varnasrama-dharma within this society then I do not

accept them as bonafide gurus. Srila Prabhupada said, just before he left,

it(VAD) was the ONLY thing that he felt was left unfinished. He gave explicit

instructions over 25 years ago to start varnasrama colleges in EVERY center.

We have none. He gave explicit instructions that all devotees are not

brahmanas and that varna training must be there and yet it is still the

standard practice within ISKCON to jam square heads into round holes with the

concommitant injuries. He said it (VAD) was the most auspicious program. Even

if they say they are emphasizing brahminical culture, he gave explicit

instructions that brahminical culture cannot be created without cow protection

and yet we have an extremely poor record of cow protection with our society.

 

We cannot make light of any of the atrocious behaviors of demonic cheaters

like Bhavananda and others and if the leaders/gurus who were not directly

involved in such crimes do not correct the situation they will be considered

accomplices. Srila Prabhupada gave the instructions, advice and orders to

implement varnasrama-dharma to stem the tide of these problems which were

beginning to manifest even when he was present. Because his instructions were

not acted upon by the leaders then we are now suffering the consequences.

 

A guru must train a disciple according to their psychophysical condition based

upon the modes of material nature and divide them into the four varnas for

proper spiritual and material development. If they are not doing this they are

cheating the disciples. This is how I judge gurus.

 

 

 

> > But I believe those rituals can be performed by

> > authorized "ritviks" on behalf of the pure devotee, and specifically the

> > most current parampara representative.

 

> Authorized by who?

> Did not Srila Prabhupada already authorize all of his disciples to become

> his representatives in due time?

 

 

Yes. In time. Why try to institute quantuum mechanics into an elementary

arithmetic class? Just because it is a bonafide science does not mean you

prematurely include it into beginning classes. Not that I think rituals are

very advanced things, but the principle of step-by-step, gradual development

of higher learning and practiced principles applies. Srila Prabhupada said we

cannot even chant very well and therefore varnasrama-dharma must be instituted

immediately. After training in varnasrama-dharma there will be good qualified

ritviks to perform many different important rituals.

 

I'll say it again, if a "guru" in ISKCON is not promoting varnasrama-dharma

and the appropriate varna and asrama training along with cow protection

(including women), I do not consider them "bonafide" gurus. They are cheaters.

They are not repeating what Srila Prabhupada said accurately. That is my

opinion.

 

If there are gurus who are doing this I will support them fully and recommend

any aspiring candidate to them for training.

[Guest guest]

On 17 May 1999, Mahanidhi das wrote:

 

 

> Then why do you call them "wonderful *granddisciples*"??

 

>

> > if they did, it was by the grace of Srila Prabhupada in his

> > "non-living" form.

>

> Then call them Prabhupada's *disciples*.

 

 

You're right. I apologize. Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Anantarupa wrote

>

> I received Diksha from Harikesha Swami. At the time, he was in good

> standing. He always simply tried to do as Prabhupada told and was,

> therefore, a bona fide guru. I feel that the diksha he gave me is a bona

> fide connection to the parampara. I do not feel cheated or lost, even

> though he now acts in a way which contradicts Prabhupada's teachings. He

> taught me the philosophy of Krishna consciousness well enough for me to

> understand that he has a problem at present and does not represent the

> parampara.

>

Hear, hear.

I also feel the same as you prabhu. Having also taken diksa from a fallen

guru.

 

Your servant, Gokula das