Guest guest Posted May 19, 1999 Report Share Posted May 19, 1999 On 18 May 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > On 16 May 1999, Tulasi-priya Devi Dasi wrote: > > > I meant is acarya in the sense of how > > Prabhupada was "founder-acarya" of ISKCON. > > > Simply from a logistical standpoint, no one else can be the founder/acarya of > ISKCON. Though some have tried to create their own standards in violation of what Prabhupada established. Kirtananda comes to mind, but there were (and are) plenty others. Many accepted his innovations because he was considered an "acarya." Those who deviated (and consequently fell down) would have been just as much "acarya" if they simply followed the instructions. > > > That list of acaryas in BG is only > > partial; it's a list of major acaryas, who "set" standards, not merely > > following them. > > > If taken as a partial list, then it would appear that some of those acaryas > took diksa from devotees who for whatever reason didn't make the 'big' list -- > so go figure how their disciple was able to accomplish themselves even while > not having a guru as 'famous' as themselves? What does fame have to do with it? or for that matter charisma (which seems to be a big draw for a lot of devotees aspiring for diksa)? If fame is a criteria, then Srila Bhaktivinoda was irrelevant compared to his son or Srila Prabhupada. I wouldn't like to be caught even thinking such a thing. > > > > In other words, Prabhupada is the last person to set standards > > for Krsna consciousness in general, for the whole world, what to speak of > ISKCON. > > > > > > > He certainly set standards for ISKCON, and as his followers we feel the world > would benefit if they were engaged within general human society. I don't think it's a matter of whether his disciples "feel" they would benefit or not--Krsna conscious is the eternal svarupa of every living entity. I don't mean you can force all the rules and regs on the pulace at large, of course, but the general principle of KC is required for everyone, whether the accept Prabhupada as guru or not. But in a > broad sense those standards had already been set -- it was Prabhupada who > found a way to practically engage them. Absolutely. And he took into consideration the time (the next 10,000 years), the place (the whole world), and the circumstances (since future circumstances or individual ciricumstances are not wholly predictable, he gave general, but firm instructions, the details of which are applied by his disciples in their own lives, and as instructions to their siksa/diksa disciples). Prabhupada gave a lot of various instructions, but the only ones that I think of that are iron-clad, inviolable, and universally practicable are 1. No meat-eating 2. No illicit sex 3. No intoxication 4. No gambling 5. Chant (at least) 16 rounds of the maha-mantra every day. 6. Study SP's books 7. Eat only Krsna-prasadam 8.Preach These are all directed at individuals, which means there's no impediment to implementing these instructions right now, except lack of faith and desire. As each individual fulfills his personal obligation to Srila Prabhupada, the sakti will manifest to solve the institutional problems (like the diksa issue) as well as fulfill societal obligations, like varnasrama-dharma. If we each clean up our own room in Prabhupada's house, then there's a better chance of having the whole house clean, n'est-ce pas? Ys, Tulsai-priya dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 1999 Report Share Posted May 19, 1999 On 15 May 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > On 15 May 1999, Jatukarnya das wrote: > > > > > > > No, but for myself I was thinking more along the lines of polyanish-ish, > but I am a hard-core cynic. > > > > > > I don't know that that means, English is not my first language. Could you > explain? > > > English may not be your first language, but compared to me you can spell as if > it were. > > As best as I can explain it, a 'Pollyanna' refers to someone who is so sure of > the righteiousness of their own position that their righteosity is becoming > somewhat discomforting to others. That's the "commonly held" interpretation of Pollyanna, which was established by the cynics who were p----d off by her positive view of life. In reality, Pollyanna could see the bad in a situation, but always chose to emphasize the good. She could see solutions to seemingly unsovlvable problems precisely because of this rare quality. Prabhupada was a Pollyanna, in the best sense of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 1999 Report Share Posted May 19, 1999 On 19 May 1999, Tulasi-priya Devi Dasi wrote: > Prabhupada gave a lot of various instructions, but the only ones that I think > of that are iron-clad, inviolable, and universally practicable are > > 1. No meat-eating > 2. No illicit sex > 3. No intoxication > 4. No gambling > 5. Chant (at least) 16 rounds of the maha-mantra every day. > 6. Study SP's books > 7. Eat only Krsna-prasadam > 8.Preach Not everyone will be able ( as is painfully obvious in ISKCON) to do all these Vaisnava principles right away. "Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to BECOME a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava. Hari-sauri: No, it's not a cheap thing. Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaisnava, that is... fall down." Is it all so black & white? 1. No meat-eating Bhima ate meat. "Just like ksatriya, they must learn how to kill. So, practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal, and if he likes he can eat also....Those who are ksatriyas, they are allowed sometimes to eat meat." SP '74 2. No illicit sex There were millions of prostitutes in Dvaraka. They were all devotees in Dvaraka. Weren't they? 3. No intoxication "If someone is adamant to drink wine there is Durga puja, Candi puja" SP '74 4. No gambling "Four kinds of sinful activities - associating with women for illicit sex, eating meat, intoxication and gambling - are allowed for the ksatriyas. For political reasons, sometimes they have to take to these sinful activities. Ksatriyas do not refrain from gambling. One vivid example is the Pandavas." S.B. 4.22.13 5. Chant (at least) 16 rounds of the maha-mantra every day. Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant. Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man. Hari-sauri: What, to simply induce people to chant? Prabhupada: Hm? Hari-sauri: He only introduced just the chanting. Prabhupada: But who will chant? Who'll chant? Satsvarupa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varnasrama. That's the easiest. Prabhupada: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Satsvarupa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasada... Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varnasrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy. "Just like the sahajiyas also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varnasrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and... Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community? Prabhupada: Yes. Yes." 6. Study SP's books "In reference to Varnasrama: Visnujana Swami: This is the most auspicious work for now, this remedial measure to stop the chaos in the world right now. Prabhupada: Yes, most auspicious. If the people are in chaos, how will they be able to accept the great philosophy? It requires a cool brain." SP '74 7. Eat only Krsna-prasadam See above 8.Preach "Madhuvisa Swami: Srila Prabhupada, Krsna says in Bg, "Those who repeat this message of Bg, those persons are most dear to Me. There is no one more dear to Me than he." Now wouldn't that indicate that a preacher is higher than a worker? Srila Prabhupada: No! This is preaching - to help. Suppose you are preaching and I am helping you. This is also preaching." SP varnasrama morning walks '74 > These are all directed at individuals, which means there's no impediment to > implementing these instructions right now, except lack of faith and desire. Pretty big "lacks" for conditioned souls who have been in this material world for a few million years wouldn't you say? How are you going to get them to just jump right into being Vaisnavas? "Satsvarupa: Lord Caitanya, when Ramananda Raya brought this up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this (VAD). Prabhupada: Yes. .... Caitanya Mahaprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side. Satsvarupa: But don't we do that also? Prabhupada: No. Our position is different. We are trying to implement Krsna consciousness in everything. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally took sannyasa. He rejected completely material. Niskincana. But we are not going to be niskincana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the... That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gita. We are not rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected everything, iha bahya. Rejected meaning, "I do not take much interest in this." Bahya. "It is external." He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching." >As > each individual fulfills his personal obligation to Srila Prabhupada, the > sakti will manifest to solve the institutional problems (like the diksa issue) > as well as fulfill societal obligations, like varnasrama-dharma. You are putting the cart before the horse aren't you? "Visnujana Swami: No one can give rapt attention without peace of mind. Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Our main aim is how to give them Krsna consciousness. But if they are already disturbed in every respect, how will they take it? Therefore we are taking this subject to help them to come to Krsna consciousness. And this is the method - varna-asrama." SP '74 If we each > clean up our own room in Prabhupada's house, then there's a better chance of > having the whole house clean, n'est-ce pas? I am a fool and rascal and I am too attached to this material world. This has caused me to be disturbed in so many ways and I have little peace of mind. I NEED VARNASRAMA DHARMA TO HELP ME COME TO KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. Not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 1999 Report Share Posted May 20, 1999 > > What does fame have to do with it? Naturally, that is not the qualification one considers in such things. But my point in utilizing that word is that it might appear that somehow a guru on the -big- list who's predecessor acarya didn't get his name posted might somehow be thought of by an outsider as somehow more accomplished than his own spiritual master. Indirectly I was taking a swipe at the idea of 'is this guru maha-bhagavata enough for me to allow myself to be considered his disciple'. As you so rightly pointed out, such considerations do not seem to preoccupy the established acaryas in our line. > > I don't think it's a matter of whether his disciples "feel" they would benefit or not--Krsna conscious is the eternal svarupa of every living entity. I don't mean you can force all the rules and regs on the pulace at large, of course, but the general principle of KC is required for everyone, whether the accept Prabhupada as guru or not. > Yes, that was Prabhupada presentation as has been repeated by the acaryas since time immemorial. > > > Absolutely. And he took into consideration the time (the next 10,000 years), the place (the whole world), and the circumstances (since future circumstances or individual ciricumstances are not wholly predictable, he gave general, but firm instructions, the details of which are applied by his disciples in their own lives, and as instructions to their siksa/diksa disciples). > I believe his specific quote along those lines refers to his books being used as lawbooks (I would imagine specifically with regards to executing devotional service) for the next ten thousand years. The principles he preached are eternal, and not subjected to any particular time frame. ys, Sthita-dhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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