Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

> Secondly, I am concerned for many of Srila Prabhupada's wonderful

> granddisciples who have been left in a difficult situation due to cheating

> "gurus". They did not receive diksa from these cheating gurus obviously

> or, if they did, it was by the grace of Srila Prabhupada in his

> "non-living" form.

 

I received Diksha from Harikesha Swami. At the time, he was in good

standing. He always simply tried to do as Prabhupada told and was,

therefore, a bona fide guru. I feel that the diksha he gave me is a bona

fide connection to the parampara. I do not feel cheated or lost, even though

he now acts in a way which contradicts Prabhupada's teachings. He taught me

the philosophy of Krishna consciousness well enough for me to understand

that he has a problem at present and does not represent the parampara.

 

I am grateful to Harikesha Swami for initiating me, always being kind to me,

and giving me guidance which, I feel, has served me well over the years and

continues to do so even after he left ISKCON. I am grateful to him for that

and I will continue to be so until I drop dead. I will not listen to what he

says as long as it contradicts what Prabhupada says in his books and

teachings, however, that does not mean that he was a "cheating guru".

Neither does it mean that I am now a diksha disciple of Prabhupada.

Prabhupada is my main siksha guru, but Harikesha Swami will remain my diksha

guru in this lifetime.That is what Prabhupad said: "He will be a regular

guru and they will be his disciple...my granddisciple."

 

Harikesha (ex) Swami and many other fallen ISKCON gurus were not malicious

"cheating gurus". They had the best intentions and did much, much more for

Prabhupad than many of us can ever dream to do. HKS suffered a lot on behalf

of Prabhupad and Prabhupad will probably never forget that, even if

Harikesha (ex)Swami is now angry at him and blaming him for the many

failures of ISKCON. I believe that these gurus were either crushed by

accepting the bad karma of too many disciples or by offending their

godbrothers.

 

Let's not commit the same mistake by minimizing the position of those

Prabhupada disciples who have accepted the duty of initiating disciples.

They are not merely officiating priests. They are regular gurus, whether

they are madhyama or uttama, as stated by Prabhupad and as such they deserve

the utmost respect. And let's make sure that initiating gurus are not

accepting too many disciples and are freed from the burden of micro

management (which also means, imho, that a guru should not be a GBC at the

same time).

 

ys Anantarupa

[Guest guest]

On 20 May 1999, Tulasi-priya Devi Dasi wrote:

 

>

>

> This may come as a surprise to some, but Pollyanna was a book before the

Mouse-god's creator ever got ahold of the idea. I read it when I was a kid,

never saw the movie. Polly was a considerably more realistic child in

literature than she was portrayed on film.

>

>

 

I used to get into many a conversation with ol' LV about how ol' Walt would

butcher the substance out of many a classic in his hollow by comparison

Dineyesque movies. I believe the 'Pollyanna' reaction was more a result of an

over exposure to his silver screen version of reality.

 

Sthita

[Guest guest]

On 20 May 1999, Tulasi-priya Devi Dasi wrote:

 

> On 19 May 1999, Janesvara Dasa wrote:

> > Not everyone will be able ( as is painfully obvious in ISKCON) to do all

> these

> > Vaisnava principles right away.

 

 

 

> Prabhu, I don't disagree that everyone will not be able to do this right

away,

> but I'm not talking about everyone. I'm talking about those of us who have

> PROMISED our spiritual master to do those things. From everything I've read

> and heard, Prabhupada fully expected us to follow those vows once we made

> them, and if we fell down, to immediately rectify. He did not give us, who

> have formally taken those vows, more than we could handle.

 

 

Some of us, either pretentiously or naively accepting commands from others not

qualified, accepted vows we had no business taking in the first place. In

general, vows are forbidden in Kali-yuga. Same as sannyasa and we all know how

unsuccessful that has been in ISKCON. Most of Srila Prabhupada's disciples

have fallen from their "vows" because they were not rightly situated within

their varna. ISKCON has tried to make brahmanas out of everyone. Srila

Prabhupada had different advice which to date is not being heeded:

 

Satsvarupa: If in our society we say, "Srila Prabhupada wants some to be

sudra..."

Prabhupada: No, no, no. I don't want. I want everyone to become Vaisnava.

But because he's a sudra, it is not possible to bring him immediately to the

platform of brahmana, or Vaisnava. Therefore falling down. Therefore system

(VAD) must be. But even if he remains a sudra, he's a Vaisnava.

Hari-sauri: So we'd have to completely revise the whole system that we have

now.

Prabhupada: No. Whatever we have, that is all right. But we see by

experience that they're falling down.

 

So, do you think Srila Prabhupada wants those disciples who fell from

contrived "brahmana" vows to take the same thing up again or just never return

at all? I think not.

 

 

> As to the examples you gave of those not following, they are all sanctioned

> and regulated by Vedic culture in one way or another, but those particular

> individuals did not take vows we have taken.

 

 

The Pandavas all took many vows. But they were well established in

varnasrama-dharma FIRST.

 

 

 

> You're a brahmana, damnit,

 

 

I love that spirit! :-)

 

 

> and if you have to, you can act as a ksatriya, in

> order to show ksatriyas how it's supposed to be done.

 

 

No, I am an aspiring ksatriya who wishes to learn Bhagavad-gita because it was

especially written for ksatriyas so they could manage the citizens

accordingly. That is what I aspire for. Step-by-step!

 

 

> Don't sell yourself

> short. How can you have peace of mind if you're not true to your word? Set

> yourself free. Follow. At least don't tell yourself you can't do it.

 

 

Actually, Prabhu, I have never felt better about my advancement. I chant japa

every morning, prayers, food to Deities, flowers, incense, books, memorize

verses (over 200!) ... the whole shabang! But in my heart of hearts I know

where I am at. The more "advanced" I become the more I realize how little

advanced I am.

 

I said it as follows but I'll change it it a little, just for you...

 

I

> > NEED VARNASRAMA DHARMA TO HELP ME COME TO KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. Not the

other

> > way around.

 

 

 

I NEED VARNASRAMA DHARMA TO HELP ME advance my KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. Not the

other way around.

 

I want to serve Krsna through my sva-dharma. I work everyday to become focused

on that exclusively. I have spent the better part of my 26 years in ISKCON, or

"out", advocating implementation of varnasrama-dharma. I shall continue.

 

 

 

 

"Ask not what varnasrama-dharma can do for you, ask what you can

> do for varnasrama."

 

I like it!

 

 

> Please forgive me if I've offended you, but I really can't stand to hear

> devotees talk about themselves in such hopeless terms.

 

 

No one can offend me. They can bug the hell out of me sometimes but never

offend me.

 

 

I remain HOPEFULLY,

your fallen servant,

Janesvara dasa.