Varna: NOT by birth

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"COM: Trayimaya (das) HKS (Aarhus - DK)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2368299 from COM]

>

> > Amongst other means, a bonafide guru surely must be able to determine

> > this, don't you think? Thus my inquiry.

>

> Guna, karma and janma (quality, work and birth) are, as far as I´ve

> understood, the factors deciding your varna.

 

>

> ...Comments please.

>

> Your servant Trayimaya dasa

 

Dear Trayimaya prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I am afraid that our conception that varna is determined by birth is the

unfortunate consequence of our tendency to accept all practices of Hinduism as

bona-fide without actually testing them against Srila Prabhupada's

instructions.

 

On one hand, sometimes Srila Prabhupada would sometimes point out that if a

child has a certain tendency, his opportunity to act in that capacity is

enhanced when he is born into a family who also has the same tendency. I

believe the example he used was that a child who has the ability to become a

doctor has a head-start if he is born into a family of doctors.

 

However, the central thrust of Srila Prabhupada's teachings was to emphasize

that ***varna is not to be determined by birth***. He was very adamant about

this point and stressed it many times. We make a serious error when we promote

the idea that birth is a significant factor in determining varna -- since Srila

Prabhupada spoke so frequently and so strongly against this point. He

condemned

the Indian caste system *specifically* because it was based on the idea that a

person's caste was determined by what family he is born into. So, we want to

be

very careful that we do not repeat the mistakes of the Hindus. We have to be

careful to follow Prabhupada's instructions on this topic, or our attempts to

establish varnasrama will result in a hellish system of social organization.

 

Who determines a devotee's varna? For one thing, as Janesvara prabhu has

pointed out, Srila Prabhupada has indicated that astrology can be helpful in

determining varna. But the main things is that Srila Prabhupada emphasized

that

the spiritual master should guide the devotee to the correct varna -- as

indicated in S.B. 5.19.19 and Hyderbad, April 20, 1974 conversation, among many

other places. In addition, there is at least one instance that I know of

where

Srila Prabhupada indicates that the community can come together and decide the

varnas of its members -- that is in the New Orleans conversation -- I think

summer of 1975 or 1976. So, it appears there can be some flexibility, as

needed, but overall, the ideal situation is that the devotee's spiritual master

should guide him to the varna best suited for his devotional service. (As we

have discussed here, that could be diksa guru or siksa guru.)

 

On the other hand, if the devotee selects his own varna, there is some danger

that he will select a certain varna because it has prestige attached to it,

instead of selecting a varna that is appropriate for him. To gain more respect,

he may decide he is a brahmana, even though he could perform more valuable and

satisfying service in a different varna. So ideally, his spiritual master, who

is not materially attached to the question, can guide the devotee to the proper

varna (after hearing from the devotee personally, as we see in the example of

Narada Muni and Dhruva). If that is not possible, at least a person can work

out his proper varna with the help of other members of the community, as Srila

Prabhupada indicated in New Orleans. At least that way you have some input

from

your well-wishing Vaisnava friends, and are not left entirely to your own

ideas,

which may be materialistically tainted. (I can post some quotes on

Prabhupada's

instructions that the guru determines the varna of the devotee, if others are

not tired of seeing them too many times already.)

 

Another important point is that natural inclination is only one factor in

becoming properly engaged by varna. Equally important is proper training in

that varna -- which is why Srila Prabhupada wanted to set up a varnasrama

college. ** That's why we're holding the KANDAVAPRASTHA Varnasrama Curriculum

Development sessions June 27-July 3 in Vienna, Maine to discuss what courses

should be offered in a varnasrama college.**

 

But, back to the point of how varna is determined, I hope the following quotes

will give you a clearer idea of Srila Prabhupada's teachings that varna should

not be determined by birth.

 

Also, don't be discouraged if everyone doesn't always agree with all your

points. You are raising important points for discussion, so I hope you will

continue.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

********************************************

 

**was 37NOTBIR.OLD 9/10/96

 

VARNA DETERMINED BY CHARACTER AND TRAINING, NOT BY BIRTH

 

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Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 5: Chapter One, Text 14 :TRANSLATION

 

My dear boy, all of us are bound by the Vedic injunctions to the divisions

of varnasrama according to our qualities and work. These divisions are

difficult

to avoid because they are scientifically arranged. We must therefore carry out

our duties of varnasrama-dharma, like bulls obliged to move according to the

direction of a driver pulling on ropes knotted to their noses.

 

PURPORT

 

In this verse, the words tantyam guna-karma-damabhih are very important.

We

each get a body according to our association with the gunas, the qualities or

modes of material nature, and we act accordingly. As stated in Bhagavad-gita,

the four orders of the social system--namely brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and

sudra--are arranged according to guna and karma, their qualities and work.

 

There is some controversy about this, however, because some say that since one

receives a body according to the guna and karma of his past life, it is one's

birth that determines his social status. Others say, however, that one's birth

according to the guna and karma of his past life is not the essential

consideration, since one can change his guna and karma even in this life. Thus

they say that the four divisions of the social order--brahmana, ksatriya,

vaisya

and sudra--should be arranged according to the guna and karma of this life.

This

version is confirmed in Srimad-Bhagavatam by Narada Muni.

 

While instructing Maharaja Yudhisthira about the symptoms of guna and karma,

Narada Muni said that these symptoms must govern the division of society. In

other words, if a person born in the family of a brahmana has the symptoms of a

sudra, he should be designated as a sudra. Similarly, if a sudra has

brahminical

qualities, he should be designated a brahmana.

 

The varnasrama system is scientific. Therefore if we accept the divisions

of varna and asrama according to the Vedic instructions, our lives will be

successful. Unless human society is thus divided and arranged, it cannot be

perfect. As stated in the Visnu purana (3.8.9):

 

varnasramacaravata

purusena parah puman

**visnur aradhyate** pantha

nanyat tat-tosa-karanam

 

"The Supreme personality of Godhead, Lord Visnu, is worshiped by the

proper

execution of prescribed duties in the system of varna and asrama. There is no

other way to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One must be situated

in

the institution of the four varnas and asramas."

 

All of human society is meant to worship Lord Visnu. At the present moment,

however, human society does not know that this is the ultimate goal or

perfection of life. Therefore instead of worshiping Lord Visnu, people have

been

educated to worship matter. According to the direction of modern society, men

think they can advance in civilization by manipulating matter to build

skyscrapers, big roads, automobiles and so on.

 

Such a civilization must certainly be called materialistic because its people

do

not know the goal of life. The goal of life is to reach Visnu, but instead of

reaching Visnu, people are bewildered by the external manifestation of the

material energy. Therefore progress in material advancement is blind, and the

leaders of such material advancement are also blind. They are leading their

followers in the wrong way.

 

It is best, therefore, to accept the injunctions of the Vedas, which are

mentioned in this verse as yad-vaci. In accordance with those injunctions,

everyone should find out whether he is a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya or sudra

and

should thus be educated accordingly. Then his life will be successful.

Otherwise, all of human society will be confused. If human society is divided

scientifically according to varna and asrama, and if the Vedic directions are

followed, one's life, regardless of his position, will be successful. It is not

that brahmanas will be elevated to the transcendental platform but not the

sudras. If the Vedic injunctions are followed, all of them--brahmanas,

ksatriyas, vaisyas and sudras--will be elevated to the transcendental platform,

and their lives will be successful.

 

 

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Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 5: Chapter Four, Text 13 :PURPORT

 

From this verse we have good information of how the castes are qualified

according to quality and work. Rsabhadeva, a king, was certainly a ksatriya. He

had a hundred sons, and out of these, ten were engaged as ksatriyas and ruled

the planet. Nine sons became good preachers of Srimad-Bhagavatam

(maha-bhagavatas), and this indicates that they were above the position of

brahmanas. The other eighty-one sons became highly qualified brahmanas.

 

These are some practical examples of how one can become fit for a certain type

of activity by qualification, not by birth. All the sons of Maharaja Rsabhadeva

were ksatriyas by birth, but by quality some of them became ksatriyas, and some

became brahmanas. Nine became preachers of Srimad-Bhagavatam

(bhagavata-dharma-darsanah), which means that they were above the categories of

ksatriya and brahmana.

 

 

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Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 7: Chapter Eleven, Text 35 :TEXT

yasya yal laksanam proktam

pumso varnabhivyanjakam

yad anyatrapi drsyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiset

 

yasya--of whom; yat--which; laksanam--symptom; proktam--described (above);

pumsah--of a person; varna-abhivyanjakam--indicating the classification

(brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, etc.); yat--if; anyatra--elsewhere;

api--also; drsyeta--is seen; tat--that; tena--by that symptom; eva--certainly;

vinirdiset--one should designate.

 

TRANSLATION

 

If one shows the symptoms of being a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya or sudra,

as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be

accepted according to those symptoms of classification.

 

PURPORT

 

Herein it is clearly stated by Narada Muni that one should not be accepted

as a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya or sudra according to birth, for although this

is going on now, it is not accepted by the sastras. As stated in Bhagavad-gita

(4.13), catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah. Thus the four

divisions

of society--brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra--are to be ascertained

according to qualities and activities. If one was born in a brahmana family and

has acquired the brahminical qualifications, he is to be accepted as a

brahmana;

otherwise, he should be considered a brahma-bandhu. Similarly, if a sudra

acquires the qualities of a brahmana, although he was born in a sudra family,

he

is not a sudra; because he has developed the qualities of a brahmana, he should

be accepted as a brahmana.

 

The Krsna consciousness movement is meant to develop these brahminical

qualities. Regardless of the community in which one was born, if one develops

the qualities of a brahmana he should be accepted as a brahmana, and he then

may

be offered the order of sannyasa. Unless one is qualified in terms of the

brahminical symptoms, one cannot take sannyasa.

 

In designating a person a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya or sudra, birth is not the

essential symptom. This understanding is very important. Herein Narada Muni

distinctly says that one may be accepted according to the caste of his birth if

he has the corresponding qualifications, but otherwise he should not. One who

has attained the qualifications of a brahmana, regardless of where he was born,

should be accepted as a brahmana. Similarly, if one has developed the qualities

of a sudra or a candala, regardless of where he was born, he should be accepted

in terms of those symptoms.

 

 

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Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 9: Chapter Two, Text 23-24 :PURPORT

 

From Manu, one son became a ksatriya, another a brahmana, and another a

vaisya. This confirms the statement by Narada Muni, yasya yal laksanam proktam

pumso varna bhivyanja kam (SB. 7.11.35). One should always remember that

brahmanas, ksatriyas and vaisyas should never be regarded as members of a caste

by birth. A brahmana may be changed into a ksatriya, and a ksatriya into a

brahmana. Similarly, a brahmana or ksatriya may be changed into a vaisya, and a

vaisya into a brahmana or ksatriya. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gita

(catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah).

 

So one is a brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya never by birth, but by quality. There

is a great need of brahmanas. Therefore, in the Krsna consciousness movement,

we

are trying to train some brahmanas to guide human society. Because at present

there is a scarcity of brahmanas, the brain of human society is lost. Because

practically everyone is a sudra, no one at the present moment can guide the

members of society to the proper path by which to achieve perfection in life.

 

 

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Room Conversation Los Angeles, June 23, 1975 750623RC.LA

 

Jayatirtha: 4.13.

catur-varnyam maya srstam

guna-karma-vibhagasah

tasya kartaram api mam

viddhy akartaram avyayam

 

"According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them,

the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the

creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being

unchangeable."

 

Prabhupada: Yes, Krsna created these four division, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya,

sudra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brahmana nor

ksatriya nor vaisya nor sudra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our

philosophy--just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we

wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brahmanas, they

will guide the ksatriyas, and the ksatriyas, the administrators, they will

guide

the vaisya. Vaisya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And sudra

means those who are neither brahmana nor ksatriya nor vaisyas. They are simply

worker, assistant.

 

So there must be division like this. The brahmanas should guide the ksatriyas,

and the ksatriyas will administer the state, and the vaisyas will produce

foodstuff, and sudras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is

spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is sudra, without

any aim of life, then there will be chaos.

 

 

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Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1973 730127BG.CAL

 

If one is born in a brahmana family, he has got the opportunity to develop the

brahmana qualities. Similarly if one is born in the family of a ksatriya, he

gets the opportunity of ksatriya spirit. Similarly vaisya. Catur varnyam maya

srstam guna karma vibhagasah. But the quality and actual action. Just like a

boy

is born of a medical practitioner. He has got greater chance of becoming,

becoming a medical student, medical practitioner. But simply by getting birth

as

a son of medical practitioner is not sufficient. He has to take education. So

catur varnyam maya srstam guna karma vibhagasah. Krsna does not say "By birth."

By acquiring the qualities and action. One must have the brah- minical

qualities

and act as a brahmana. Then he'll be accepted as brahmana.

 

 

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Morning Walk

Geneva, June 6, 1974 740606MW.GEN

 

Yogesvara: There is one Englishman named Aldous Huxley...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Yogesvara: ...who wrote a book called "Brave New Worlds", and in that book, he

predicted something that's coming true now, that there would be a process of

biologically screening babies so that men could be breeded like animals, like

they breed animals. So they would take one strain of chromosomes and breed a

class of men who would make perfect administrators, and then they would breed

another class of men that would be perfect sudras, and they would breed another

class of men who would be perfect scientists.

 

Prabhupada: And that is already there. Guna-karma-vibhagasah. The, the, in

Vedic

astrology, jata-karma, they will say that "This child is a sudra, this child is

a brahmana, this child is a ksatriya." By the birth, by the constellation of

the

stars, it will be done. It is already being done. And in the medical

laboratory,

the blood has been tested, brahmana, sudra, vaisya, there is different blood.

Yes. The blood infusion. So if the, a different blood is infused, it does not

act. So one doctor, in India, he was permanently keeping different bloods for

different persons. So there is some meaning in the caste system. But that is

not... In a brahmana family, a sudra may also take birth. Sudra blood. So to

keep the blood brahminical, therefore the reformatory system is there,

garbhadhana-samskara and all the samskaras. Before birth, they keep, to keep

the

blood brahminical, there is ceremony.

 

 

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IT IS NOT THE CASTE SYSTEM

 

Interview Chandigarh, October 16, 1976 761016IV.CHA

 

Interviewer: Sir, in the modern technological...

 

Prabhupada: Modern, we are not talking of modern or... We're talking...

Interviewer: In this age, how has the, you know, instrument of production

because of this tractor, mechanization of agriculture.

 

Prabhupada: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present

Bhagavad-gita as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains

sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will

give you all benefits of economic question... The recommended process in the

Bhagavad-gita, that annad bhavanti bhutani. If you have sufficient foodstuff,

then everyone is satisfied.

 

And it is the duty of the vaisya class, krsi go-raksya vanijyam; go-raksya

vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam. The, according to Bhagavad-gita, this is

the

business of the vaisyas. The brahmanas, they should be very much highly

educated, enligthened in spiritual knowledge. The ksatriyas, they should

govern,

give protection. The vaisyas, they should produce enough food. And those who

are

neither brahmana nor ksatriya, sudras, they can help. That's all. This is

their.... Then everyone will be satisfied. The society will go on. Just like in

your body you require brain, the head, you require arms, you require belly, you

require legs. Similarly, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. That is essential.

If you have simply brain and no leg then it is also useless. There must be

brain

and leg also. There must be brahmana, there must be sudra, there must be....

Then the social arrangement is perfect.

 

Interviewer: Would that mean that you support the ancient caste system?

 

Prabhupada: Huh? It is not caste system. It is division of labor. It is not

caste system. A class of men must be intelligent, a class of men must be strong

to give protection. And a class of men must be to produce food, and a class of

men, general worker. It is not caste system. Bhagavad-gita never says caste

system. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah. According to quality

and work. You have made it caste system. You have no qualification of a

brahmana, you are calling, "I am brahmana." That is caste system. But if you

have got the quality of a brahmana and you work as a brahmana, that is

necessary. That is necessary. Guna-karma-vibhagasah.

 

 

© 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust