Varna: NOT by birth

[Guest guest]

Dear Hare Krsna Prabhu

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

You wrote:

> However, the central thrust of Srila Prabhupada's teachings was to

> emphasize that ***varna is not to be determined by birth***. He was very

> adamant about this point and stressed it many times. We make a serious

> error when we promote the idea that birth is a significant factor in

> determining varna -- since Srila Prabhupada spoke so frequently and so

> strongly against this point.

 

Maybe you are making a common point but referring to my husbands text

sounding like this I dont see any disagreement.

> Srila Prabhupada stressed the two first, especially as an argument to

> smartabrahmins, who did not want westerners (or other classes of people)

> to wear sacred tread, as this was their "business".

>

> But we also see how important it is for a child to have a "rolemodel" in

> his parents for helping him in his life´s varna. Therefore the

> varnasramatraining is very important, so as not to waste many valuable

> years in confusion about your occupation.

 

It seems like, at least to me, that both of your texts are also in harmony

with Srila Prabhupada's instructions.

> There is some controversy about this, however, because some say that since

> one receives a body according to the guna and karma of his past life, it

> is one's birth that determines his social status. Others say, however,

> that one's birth according to the guna and karma of his past life is not

> the essential consideration, since one can change his guna and karma even

> in this life. Thus they say that the four divisions of the social

> order--brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra--should be arranged according

> to the guna and karma of this life. This version is confirmed in

> Srimad-Bhagavatam by Narada Muni.

 

Apart from that we cannot simply ignore the fact that the body in itself

gives us different possibilities or hindrances to what occupation we can

successfully take up. This you also mention by bringing in astrology.

 

> Who determines a devotee's varna? For one thing, as Janesvara prabhu has

> pointed out, Srila Prabhupada has indicated that astrology can be helpful

> in determining varna. But the main things is that Srila Prabhupada

> emphasized that the spiritual master should guide the devotee to the

> correct varna

 

I personally feel that we should notice and keep the word *guide* as very

important, thus keeping the free choice. When dealing with my own kids I

certainly know that this is the only possible way.

Otherwise we might again end up with frustrated people being misplaced,

like we have seen with marriages and initiations pressed on individuals who

did not feel that they had a say about important steps in their lifes.

 

> On the other hand, if the devotee selects his own varna, there is some

> danger that he will select a certain varna because it has prestige

> attached to it, instead of selecting a varna that is appropriate for him.

> To gain more respect, he may decide he is a brahmana, even though he could

> perform more valuable and satisfying service in a different varna. So

> ideally, his spiritual master, who is not materially attached to the

> question, can guide the devotee to the proper varna (after hearing from

> the devotee personally, as we see in the example of Narada Muni and

> Dhruva).

 

 

When we can say: If you want to be a brahmana/ksatriya/vaisya/sudra we can

give you this and this facilities it would certainly make a different impact

to someone than simply designating them and leaving them with that.

For eksampel if we could say to a sudra: You will get this place to live,

and your children will have these possibilities of education and you will be

able to support your family by serving in this place and we will even take

care of you in cases of illness and old age. It might not be so common that

a sudraminded person would like to take a whole lot of trouble to move into

another varna.

However if a person is very determined to surpass his sudra/position

whatever his motivation, it might be an indication that he is not actually

rightly placed as a sudra.

 

These were my thoughts when reading your text.

 

Your servant Gunamani d.d.