Varna: bit by bit

[Guest guest]

On 04 Jun 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

 

>

> > > Would anyone really question

> > > Srila Prabhupada if he had told them they were of a certain varna?

>

> > What I would like to know is did Srila Prabhupada do that?

> >

>

> Curiously, we don't hear stories of Srila Prabhupada setting devotees on a

> single minded carear path for the rest of their lives.

 

 

I seem to remember many, many instances of Srila Prabhupada referring to many

of his disciples as "brahmanas" and to do their prescribed duties accordingly.

Isn't "brahmana" a varna anymore?

 

He also clearly instructed many of his senior disciples to take up one of the

four specific varnas and to become expert at it in order to teach other

devotees.

 

He certainly referred to farm devotees as vaisyas.

 

 

 

> > > Are there any ISKCON gurus who are determining the varnas of their

> > > disciples now? I have requested a list of the same but as yet have not

> received a single name.

> > >

 

 

> As far as I know, there are currently very few senior devotees (guru or

> otherwise) waiting in line to join Janesvara Prabhu's "VAD NOW -- according

to

> how I see Srila Prabhupada seeing it!" party.

 

 

VAD "NOW"??? After 25 years, 2 months, 20 days and 6 or 7 hours? Hardly "NOW".

There are a few very respected senior disciples who want VAD a lot more than

me and they have a better understanding than I. They are brahmanas who are

capable and willing to teach the principles of VAD. There efforts to do so

have not been met with much enthusiasm from the GBC for obvious reasons.

 

 

I try to see VAD the way Srila Prabhupada explained it in his morning walk

conversations in Vrindavana in 1974 and in his Valentine's Day '77

conversations with Hari-sauri Prabhu and others. There are certainly many

other references, but those are the most essential, fundamental and detailed

instructions on the subject from Srila Prabhupada. (Unless someone has other

instructions of which I am unaware). If someone is interested in VAD in

accordance with Srila Prabhupada's instructions those two references MUST be

studied.

 

That doesn't mean they will magically take up VAD. After studying the

conversations again a few years ago I asked Hari-sauri Prabhu if the entire

GBC had read the conversations and, if they had, how could they NOT commence

immediate steps to implement VAD in ISKCON. He replied that he wasn't certain

that all GBC members had read the conversations, but he was sure that all, or

almost all, KNEW the content of the conversations. As to why they don't

implement those instructions of the pure devotee he offered, "They, like (name

deleted), just don't get it, I guess."

 

 

Don't take Janesvara dasa's word for it...read the instructions yourself,

again and again and again. If you don't have the texts I will send them to

anyone desiring them and they will be posted shortly on my web page for

varnasrama-dharma at: http://www.stsi.net/~jdf1/index.html.

 

Gunamani wrote:

> > I know of many (gurus) who are guiding their disciples into both

materially

> and spiritual longterm circumstances.

> >

 

 

Srila Prabhupada was NOT this vague, Prabhu, believe me. Do you have the

conversations I spoke of earlier? Or the complete VAD morning walks?

He gave crystal clear instructions that there was to be dividing and training

into varnas for the entire ISKCON society. If the gurus are not doing this

they are doing a disservice to their followers.

 

 

 

> That doesn't count! Labeling people is so much easier for those whose minds

> are consumed by the mode of passion. It helps them readily distinguish

between

> those who they can consider themselves better than, and those who they must

> overtake in order to come closer to God.

 

 

This is small and narrow minded. I didn't come up with the "labels" Prabhu.

They were created by Sri Krsna. Is He "consumed by the mode of passion"? Grow

up.

 

The "labels" can be translated to any nomenclature one needs (intellectuals,

high court judges, administrators, etc.). Besides, devotees are devotees. But

devotees divide for management. It has to be there.

 

"Srila Prabhupada: First of all varna and when the varna is PERFECTLY (my

emphasis) in order, then there is asrama. Asrama is especially meant for

spiritual advancement. Varna is general division. It must be there in human

society. If varna is not there then this is a society of animals. And when the

varna is working PERFECTLY (my emphasis again), then we give them the asrama.

 

Hrdayananda: First they should be taught a skill.

 

SP: Yes, first of all the whole society should be divided into four varnas.

Otherwise there will be chaotic conditions. That is the position now. What is

he? What he has to do? One does not know and there is so much unemployment. If

you organize the society into varnas there will be no question of

unemployment." Vrin '74

 

 

> There is more to VAD than a royal edict -- it is an entire culture. As we

have

> previously discussed, Vaisnava gurus are meant to be teachers and not Little

> Caesars.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada was not a "Little Caesar" Prabhu. He gave an order that VAD

was to be implemented in ISKCON - it has not been followed to date.

Had IT been followed instead of spending years and years on a totally bogus

zonal acarya-guru system we would have been along ways toward that "entire

culture" you speak of.

 

When will we begin?

 

Srila Prabhupada left the planet saying that he had fulfilled HALF of his

mission and that the other half was to implement varnasrama-dharma. He

fulfilled his half in 13 years - we have hardly even started our part in twice

as many years. And we are still questioning dividing into varnas?

 

 

 

> Vaisnava gurus are meant to awaken KC in all conditioned souls,

 

 

"It was the duty of the spiritual master or teacher to observe the

psychological movement of a particular boy and thus train him in a particular

occupational duty. Dhruva Maharaja, having already been trained in the

ksatriya spirit, would not accept the brahminical philosophy." Purport SB

4.8.36