Srila Prabhupadas advise about Guru tattva

[Guest guest]

On 26 Jun 1999, Payonidhi Dasa wrote:

 

 

>

> Well wherever there is a pure devotee one should take his asssociation,

> if we think only ISKCON have pure devotee gurus, though nothing has proven

to me after 20 years in ISKCON that there is nothing more than

> madhyama adhikaris as Gurus at the present moment in ISKCON

>

 

That may be your personal perception. I don't feel qualified to judge the

intimacy of the relationship between Krsna and His devotees.

 

None-the-less, appreciating the association of the elevated Vaisnavas does not

necessarily require one enter a disciplic relationship. For instance, amongst

the infallibly pure hearted residents of Goloka Vrndavana, there are different

camps of devotees, each with their own leaders, each choosing to please Krsna

from a variety of different moods. This is a symptom of personalism.

 

As persons, some of us may wish to remain within Prabhupada's direct line.

 

 

 

> I had a Guru that just fell down after 19 years of being a disciple

> of some so called Guru, who was just mistrating devotees and was simply

puffed up. I thought I would never take initiation from anyone and siksa from

anyone, because I only looked within ISKCON. However Krsna had another plan

for me. However I am still a part of ISKCON, and noone can take that right

away from me.

>

 

That may all be true. Still, becoming a diksa or siksa disciple of one

Vaisnava does not award a liscence for expressiving an obnoxious attitude

towards the rest -- that is an offesive mentality that will likely only lead

to dissallusionment -- something we have certainly seen time and again within

our ISKCON.

 

So now we seem to be discussing a situation where devotees are taking siksa

and diksa from Guadiya spiritual masters, and then some of them are at least

partially justifying their behavior with an aggressive attitude towards a

variety of other senior Vaisnavas. I am not convinced this is an auspicious

path.

 

 

> There has been one fanatical behavior after the other,and one false

> ego trip after the other to try to control devotees. However the real test

are we becoming more attracted to Krsna and less to maya.

>

 

 

It appears that the association of these 'egotistical' devotees played a

crucial role in helping you come to your present situation, which you now

appear to feel is correct and true by all accounts. So there is no loss along

the path for those who are sincere -- Krsna is very merciful by all accounts.

 

 

 

> The biggest problem ISKCON is facing is the lack of pure devotee spiritual

masters, it can not be denied. I am talking about uttamadhikari Spritual

masters.

>

 

Maybe yes, maybe no. Yes, it is extremely difficult now-a-days for those who

wish to exhibit an entirely self-righteous holier-then-thou attitute about

being an ISKCON devotee. Humility is a difficult lesson for many of us.

 

Curiously, there were many similar 'biggest problem' type situations amongst

the ISKCON devotees even during Prabhupada's physical presence, as well as

stories of similar problems within non ISKCON Vaisnava societies.

 

The material world is problematic always, and ultimately Krsna consciousness

is a personal experience for the practitioner. Indulging in either ISKCON or

non-ISKCON group think can only take us so far.

 

 

 

> Someone that is not chanting suddha nama can't inspire

> devotees to attain to that stage.

>

 

Again, we are limitted by our own expereince concerning our individual

perception of suddha nama, and the ability of others to also experience such

things.

 

 

 

> Another step that I believe needs to be taken

> is to understand the need to chant more than 16 rounds a day.The standard

needs to be raised, from the only 16 rounds to 64 a a day. Srila

> Prabhupada was dealing with lazy minds, but the Gaudia Vaisnava standard is

64 rounds a day.

>

 

 

Apparently you feel you understand how to preach KC as Prabhupada actually

meant to. Surely, you can chant as many rounds as your heart desires. Uttering

the Holy Name even once offenselessly is enough to take us back home. Such is

the glory of Krsna's Holy Name.

 

 

> Those who are sincere in making spiritual advancement

> understand the need to increase the chanting of the holy name. This idea of

just doing the minimum for our spiritual advancement is a purely managerial

oppression that has been used to make devotees work in the preaching field

without concerns for their spiritual wellfare.

>

 

 

Again, maybe yes, maybe know. I know of very few devotees excommunicated from

ISKCON for wanting to increase their quota of rounds. Especially for older

devotees, who one would think would have a more intensive interest. I know of

no GBC sanyassis going to the homes of the senior grhasta's and such with

instructions to chant only the minimum amount of rounds.

 

 

 

> Just becoming some big shot in ISKCON has not proven that any such persons

where more advanced than anyone else, they where just able often

> to push their way to the top at others expence

>

 

 

That should be obvious no matter what camp one identifies with. There have

also been difficulties with non-ISKCON Vaisnava 'big-shots'. So we should pray

to avoid becoming such 'big-shots'.

 

 

> No just false ego trips to control money

> and men, and if one does not fit into the scence by objecting to things that

are not even KC one is mistreated and asked to leave that zone.This is the

poor situation that ISKCON is in.kanistha adhikari mentality

>

 

 

Then we should be careful not to ourselves indulge in these activities, using

ISKCON leadership as a scapegoat for our personal shortcomings. Good

intensions are always welcome, but sometimes a sensitive and intelligent

application of the philosophy are also required.

 

 

 

> Well there is so

> many nice devotees around, but they are mostly never in any positions. All

GBC's and TP's are not all bad.

>

 

 

Then I would suggest we be careful to associate nicely with the other nice

devotees by taking their Vaisnava sanga to heart. As for teaming masses of

perceived neophytes, on can always offer respect wihin our heart from a

distance.

 

It is true that our spiritual advancement is not dependent on our placement

within an organization, as you also have so correctly pointed out. Still,

organizations can be very useful in cultivating KC in the modern world, and

establishing such a world wide organization appears to have been another one

of Prabhupada's many 'specific' missions on behalf of Srila Bhaktisidhanta and

Lord Caitanya.

 

 

> However there is a lack of positive KC in ISKCON at present,and it is felt

badly.

>

 

Then the solution is to become positively KC. The only point I wish to raise

is that many of us wish to cultivate KC within Prabhupada's direct disciplic

line -- either as siksa, or for the previous generation, also as diksa

followers.

 

 

> The worst part is that this Satadhanya is going to defend ISKCON in court in

Calcutta, what is the GBC thinking having an ex pedefile defend

> ISKCON, are they trying to make us loose all temples in INDIA?? I have never

heard of anything that has made me loose that much faith in the GBC

>

 

 

I don't know the details at all. It might possibly be better to inquire from

those who are actually involved in such decisions. It could also be that we

are not getting all our information concerning this situation from objective

sources.

 

So we shall see how Krsna chooses to deal our next hand.

 

ys,

 

Sthita-dhi