Siksa guru as personal spiritual guide

[Guest guest]

On 25 Jun 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote:

> Yes, they are not on the same level. Certain followers of one of the

parties seem determined to indulge in a severe case of a holier than thou

superiority complex.

 

I didn't mean to get into an endless tit-for-tat.

 

Nothing is more convincing than real KC experience. I am sure you can recall

Payonidhi Prabhu, who was singing a very negative tune but only a few months

back. Just see the transformative power that a genuine sadhu wields!

 

Just for yourselves, honeybees!

 

 

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Begin Forwarded Text

 

 

EDITORIAL

June 14, 1999 VNN4097

In Glorification Of H.H. Narayana Maharaja

 

 

--

BY PAYONIDHI DAS

 

EDITORIAL, Jun 14 (VNN) — Dear Devotees, Maharajas and Matajis. Please accept

my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I just went to meet

H.H. Narayana Maharaja at Agraya Prabhu place in Virginia.

 

I must say that I have had a change of heart about Narayana Maharaja. I was of

the impression that Narayana Maharaja would only talk about Parakiya Rasa etc.

This is however a complete misunderstanding. This evening on the 11th of June

Maharaja talked about getting out of the blind well of material attachments,

and becoming attached to Krsna.

 

It is unfortunate that we in ISKCON have misunderstood H.H. Narayana Maharaja,

I really want to publicly apologize for any offense I may have committed to

Srila Narayana Maharajas lotusfeet. I think we have done some mistakes by

expelling devotees that took or take siksa from Narayana Maharaja. I talked to

one mataji that was expelled from her service to Srila Prabhupada in

Vrindavana, though she is a loyal Prabhupada disciple and was initiated 27

years ago.

 

This kind of attitude where devotees are rejected because they feel inspired

by a senior vaisnava like Narayana Maharaja is just straight out offensive and

demoniac behavior. To see that other bonafide devotees are not welcome in

ISKCON is tama guna bhakti. And we in ISKCON have to appreciate great souls

like Narayana Maharaja, there is no question of force because devotees already

know and love Narayana Maharaja all over the world, in ISKCON and outside as

well. All this banning of Maharaja from our ISKCON temples is just maya. We

must open our hearts and minds and be willing to associate with such great

souls like Narayana Maharaja, who is without a doubt a great exalted vaisnava,

plus he was a dear friend of Srila Prabhupada(and still is). Some may still

have some reservation but that is their own maya,and I am convinced about

this. I do suggest that the GBC reconsider its valuation of Narayana

Maharaja,and maybe other Gaudiya vaisnavas as well.

 

We are all aspiring devotees of Lord Caitanya and if we stand united it will

be a greater force to drive out Kali yugas influence. The greatest victory of

Kali is when he makes devotees get divided in "party spirits". If there is

great vaisnava association like is found with Narayana Maharaja's devotees,we

in ISKCON should also desire such association. We will benefit, not loose. I

am convinced that Krsna is changing the heart of many devotees like myself.

And I am convinced that within ISKCON we again are returning to the former

admiration we all had for H.H. Narayana Maharaja.

 

This is a positive step.

 

Your servant Payonidhi das

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhu wrote on 26.06.99

 

>> On June 22, Harsi das wrote:

>> I think we better leave it up to Krsna, to decide WHO was or is a bonafide

>> or NON bonafide spiritual master, otherwise it may happen that we dont know

>> WHO or WHAT we are talking about...

 

> I suppose my caution to Mahanidhi prabhu also extends to you, judging by

> your former spiritual master (HKS). On that note, it would seem well

> warranted for you to become a little more introspective and soul-searching

> as how you will fill the vacuum in your life that has now become more

> apparent since Harikesa Swami's apostasy (spiritual demise).

 

Since Krishna is the Ultimate source of knowledge and judgement, and not

merely our own subjective criticism, maybe you would be so kind to tell us a

vers by Him which supports your stantpoint in this matter, otherwise my above

statement still remains valid.

 

> In Upadesamrta, Srila Rupa Goswami enjoins a serious spiritual aspirant

> (krsneti manasadrieyta...) to properly associate with devotees by learning

> how to discriminate between the various classes of Vaisnavas -- kanistha

> adhikari, madhyama adhikari and uttama-adhikari. In his purport to this

> critical verse, Srila Prabhupada points out the importance of accepting the

> 1st class Vaisnava as one's spiritual master. If one has mistaken a 2nd or

> 3rd class devotee (kanisthas can also be very impressive) for a uttama,

> besides being unfortunate, this indicates the candidate has not yet realized

> the practical purport to Rupa Goswami's instruction. One therefore NEEDS

> the compassionate association of a truly qualified sadhu to advance

> progressively on the path of spiritual understanding.

 

Maybe or maybe not, is only a Uttama adhikari a bonafide spiritual master?

I guess than we can forget about taking initiation from a spiritual master in

ISKCON. Or forget about liberation from the bondage of birth and death until

a bonafide utama adhikari like Srila Prabhupada apears again. What makes Srila

Prabhupada a uthama adhikari? Just an inocent question.

 

> In this connection, Rupa Goswami's instruction also applies to Srila

> Prabhupada's disciples as well as to other disciples of ISKCON gurus who

> have accepted a guru who is not sufficiently qualified, even that guru may

> not be considered "fallen" by GBC standards. The GBC approval system

> certifies a prospective initiating guru merely as "not fallen," but this

> says little about his actual qualification to guide and act as sad-guru.

 

On what basis do you judge the qualifications of a "bonafide" or "sufficiently

qualified" guru? If a guru teaches acording to the vedic standarts, is it not

up to his disciples to decide if they find him to be bonafide or sufficiently

qualified?

 

> Dynamic association with highly advanced sadhus (siksa-gurus) is absolutely

> necessary at every stage of our spiritual life, especially for neophyte

> practitioners.

 

No doubt about it. What is your definition of "highly adavanced sadhus"?

 

> Prabhupada's disciples are in no less of a perilous condition being bereft

> of the manifest siksa-guru in their life. Welcome to the lonely hearts club!

> But let's not remain there... Find highly advanced devotees and associate

> with them.

 

I dont feel lonely, rather I feel Krsnas presence everywhere. And highly

advanced devotees I find are also in this conference. I apreciate you also and

like your association on COM, of course I asociate privately also with other

highly advanced devotees, some are also spiritual masters and have their

disciples.

 

> As a final note, I always considered Harikesa Prabhu my friend and

> benefactor.

> However, we can mince no words when it comes to a proper philosophical

> understanding: Harikesa Prabhu is not, nor ever was, a genuinely qualified

> (ie, "bonafide") spiritual master, a sad-guru, capable of delivering his

> disciples to perfection (realizing their nitya-svarupa).

 

Since you dont back up your statements with any versis from Krsna, guru, sadhu

or sastra, which can be aplyd to him, I cannot but conclude that this is your

personal subjective criticism wich in this case has no value whatsoever for

me.

 

> That Harikesa performed wonderful service, helping and inspiring thousands

< of followers along the path and was a guru of sorts (eg, vatma-pradarsaka,

> etc.) no doubt. But a *bonafide* guru?

> We can definitively say not. Judge by the result: what is he doing now?

 

Yes judje by the result: what is he doing now? Still Chanting Hare Krisna and

worshiping Krsna, or do you have some other informations? Then let me know it.

 

Ys

Harsi das

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Speaking frankly,

 

> Srila dasa

 

 

> > It is a great offense to call an honest man a thief.

> > From my own experience and observation, I can confidently state that you

don't know WHO or WHAT you are talking about. Please be careful.

 

> > For someone as yourself who made the grave error of mistaking and

accepting a NON bona fide guru for a spiritual master, you display a decided

lack of humility, remorse and introspection.