Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 On 28 Jun 1999, Srila Dasa wrote: > > The past few texts by Mahanidhi Prabhu have been complete speculations about Narayan Maharaja with slanderous intimations based upon trumpred-up > accounts -- all without a SHRED of evidence or fact. > > Supply some hard data or stand accused of SADHU-NINDA. > > I submit this before all respectable souls for their consideration. > This slander of senior Gaudiya Vaisnavas must stop at once. > And PLEASE, PLEASE, no-one say anything sarcastic or demeaning towards Srila Prabhu. This poor little honeybee is now drowning in the waves of his nectarean association. Especially Mahanidhi, don't quote anything he ever says. We might not understand it properly, being written down black and white in plain English. Better to hear directly Srila Prabhu's enlightened version of devotional reality. He knows best how to adapt things according to time and place! My eyes have been opened -- I know now I am just brainless neophyte who must subject his every whim for Srila Prabhu's approval. Who could ever imagine such endless ever-increasing bliss! ys, Sthita- 'get the buzz' dhi-muni dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 > Srila prabhu wrote: > > >For someone as yourself who made the grave error of mistaking and > >accepting a NON bona fide guru for a spiritual master, you display a > >decided lack of humility, remorse and introspection. > > Dear Srila Prabhu, > > I was greatly saddened to read the text above. It does not fit with the > compassionate person I know you to be. Personaly I did not read this comment of Srila Prabhu as an insult. When Jayatirtha left, I also realised that I had made a great mistake, and did feel very sorry for myself, as well as (at least initialy) sorry for him. Later I realised that Jayatirtha had probabaly NEVER *really* understood Krsna Consciousness. In retrospect, hearing the comments HKS made about Srila Prabhupada, does make me wonder if he really understood also. Surrendering in spiritual life is often a very complicated task, and our motivations, and evolution (or devolution) of consciousness just adds to the complexity. Yes if we are simple, it can be simple. But looking at people like Jayatirtha, Kirtananda, Harikesa etc. we see a lot of complexity. They did great service undoubtedly, but then they really let people down too, people who had the highest expectations of them, people who they lead to beleive should have the highest expectations. So It would seem appropriate that someone whose guru fell down, should feel, humility, remorse and introspection. Hey, I almost forgot, arent we all supposed to be possessed of these qualities all the time? What to speak of when we face a major reversal? Sometimes I feel that we so readily identify ourselves as being rightous perceivers of the truth, that we fail to remember that real sainthood is characterised by great humility, great remorse at our being here in this world of sinners, and great introspection at our perceived failure to actualy be saints. We are so ready to set the guns blazing on senior people whom we have very little actual personal realisation of their position, other than popular hearsay. Part of the varnasrama system is to recognise and act with humility towards ones seniors. If we dont do that then varnasrama can never be upheld. Even if those seniors may deviate, OK we do not have to take shelter, but still we offer respect. Did many of our leaders not commit a grave aparadha when they insulted Pradyumna Prabhu? Will they not have to pay the price? At this time in my life (June 99) I am personaly (for what it is worth) not advocating that anyone leave ISKCON to take shelter of another Gaudiya Vaisnava. Surely Srila Prabhupada warned us not to take shelter outside? Hearing from elevated sadhus is to be reccomended. But if a supposed sadhu, is after many followers, so much so that they resort to pilfering them from Srila Prabhupadas movement and reinitiating them, obviously that is not good. I am not saying that anyone in particular is doing this, I dont know. But if someone is doing this and we personaly see this, then we know to offer respect, but stay away. I would personaly advise, that if we have not ourselves reached actual sainthood (and if we had we would refrain from bandying about unverified and dubious information as actual fact) and if we are not interested in personaly verifying, then it would be best to remain silent rather than cast aspersions on the position of other senior people. Some in ISKCON seem to sometimes lack the kind of gravity that Srila Prabhu reminds us we should have. The camaraderie of years together, has made us somewhat irreverant even towards one another, what to speak of perceived outsiders. He is right we do have to be very careful, especialy when rumours that what we sometimes hear on the ISKCON grapvine, come from ill motivated sources. As long as leaders maintain their positions out of pride, we will have to be very wary. In any case, the fact remains that we get the association we desire. As long as we do not desire the association of pure devotees, we will not get it. Even some of Srila Prabhupadas disciples, as has been pointed out, often did not take advantage of the fact that they were initiated by the purest type of devotee. They basicaly wasted their opportunity. If we really desire a pure devotee, the Lord will manifest one for us, as he promises to deliver anyone who aspires genuinely for his shelter. > I would have expected you to take a much humbler position and > to admit that you were simply incredibly lucky to have joined ISKCON while > Prabhupada was still on the planet. Let's not be so judgmental of each > other. While there is no doubt that Srila Prabhu is one lucky prabhu in having received initation from Srila Prabhupada, this does not mean that we cannot also be as lucky. Pure devotees are all very very special, and if we really do want one, Krsna will send one. So Srila Prabhu, and all his godbrothers, do not have the monopoly on luck. We get what we really really want, really. YS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 On 29 Jun 1999, Samba das wrote: > > Some in ISKCON seem to sometimes lack the kind of gravity that Srila Prabhu reminds us we should have. > Curiously, some of those who might consider themselves outside sometimes seem to be full of themselves with it. > > We get what we really really want, really. > No doubt about it. So we need to be careful to become good followers, and not simply in name. There is more to it all than feeling we've joined a pure devotee's 'gentleman's club'. ys, Sthita-dhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 Samba wrote: >We get what we really really want, really. That seems like another very harsh statement. Is that how you explain the horrible child abuse, domestic violence and murders that have happened in ISKCON too? One of the reasons I found KC philosophy so attractive originally, was that it could explain why "bad things happen to good people" - but the reason I read had nothing to do with *wanting* them to happen. It was your past karma. There were so many reasons people took initiation from certain gurus, especially in the early zonal acarya days. Peer pressure, pressure by authorities, *no choice* of guru (combined with a belief that you could not go Home unless you were initiated) etc. are but three. Let's not be so judgmental of others. Although I pray it won't be the case, tomorrow it may be your turn to experience the same thing. I for one will assume that watching your guru fall is not something very many devotees "really, really, really" wanted, just like those children did not want to be beaten black and blue, anallly raped, forced to wear their urinated-upon underwear on their head, having cockroaches stuck up their noses, being tied up like dogs, eat vomited foods, having their arms broken, or being yelled at. Please lets have some compassion here. Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 1999 Report Share Posted June 29, 1999 On 29 Jun 1999, Madhusudani Radha wrote: > Samba wrote: > >We get what we really really want, really. > > That seems like another very harsh statement. Is that how you explain the > horrible child abuse, domestic violence and murders that have happened in > ISKCON too? I don't think that is what Samba Prabhu was implying, knowing him what little I do. I am sure he will clarify his statement soon. > There were so many reasons people took initiation from certain gurus, > especially in the early zonal acarya days. Peer pressure, pressure by > authorities, *no choice* of guru (combined with a belief that you could > not go Home unless you were initiated) etc. are but three. Let's not be > so judgmental of others. We have a right to judge our leaders and make changes through civil involvement and group action (voting). >Although I pray it won't be the case, tomorrow it > may be your turn to experience the same thing. I for one will assume that > watching your guru fall is not something very many devotees "really, > really, really" wanted, just like those children did not want to be beaten > black and blue, anallly raped, forced to wear their urinated-upon underwear > on their head, having cockroaches stuck up their noses, being tied up like > dogs, eat vomited foods, having their arms broken, or being yelled at. No victim can be held responsible for such crimes regardless of their "karma" considerations; that is between them and the Lord. The criminals who perpetrated such acts must be held accountable and retribution must be administered by proper authority now and must be instituted to avoid all future attempts. Bad leaders are responsible for such things. They have to accept a portion of the karma of all of their citizens. If they do not manage properly their karmic reaction is that much heavier. Conspiratorial or even passive supporters and knowing-but-ignoring leaders and co-leaders are just as responsible and will "pay" one way or another - either before they go to Yamaraja's court which is the Vedic program of compassion or in Yama's court upon death. ISKCON stands to suffer terribly at the hands of ruthless legal titans because they have weakly failed to root out the criminals and blind supporters of these crimes. There is no greater evidence of their arrogance and defenseless ignorance when they continue to allow such criminals into positions of authority or praise like Bhavananda in Sydney. This will be taken by legal authorities of proof of ISKCON's inability to govern itself and its innocent and defenseless members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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