Siksa guru as personal spiritual guide

[Guest guest]

>

> The past few texts by Mahanidhi Prabhu have been complete speculations

> about Narayan Maharaja with slanderous intimations based upon trumpred-up

> accounts -- all without a SHRED of evidence or fact.

>

> Supply some hard data or stand accused of SADHU-NINDA.

>

 

You seam to be unable to reasonable discuss any "data", but to

simply go exclaiming "Offense, offense!"

 

ALLAH AKBAR!

 

 

> I submit this before all respectable souls for their consideration. This

> slander of senior Gaudiya Vaisnavas must stop at once.

>

 

What is it that you are actually submitting? Didn't even tell us

what exactly that slander of NM is going on here on this forum.

 

 

> The "noncooperation" you speak of has from the very beginning been

> instigated by ISKCON and the GBC through: a) specific resolutions, b)

> position papers, c) preaching by senior ISKCON leaders (eg,

> Badri-Narayana's stuff published on COM.) besides systematic and concrete

> actions (eg, banishing devotees and forbidding anyone to associate with

> Narayana Maharaja) in temples around the world.

>

 

 

It is very simple. If you are the member of NM's Math (his disciple,

before all) and if you want to take siksa/diksa from an ISCKON

preacher/guru, you can't do that without permission of Narayana

Maharaja. So you can, if you like. But then you got to leave NM's

Math. Or is it not so? Say something concrete, Srila prabhu. Not

only some "SADHU NINDA! Stop the heretic! Cut of his tongue!"

 

The same like in NM' Math is in ISCKON as well. But when done so

in ISCKON, by the ISCKON spiritual authorities and the leaders,

then they are being attacked and named with all kinds of names.

And whoever objects it is, of course, got to burn in the hell.

 

Certainly, you have told us already that "NM is not obliged in

the same way as we are."?? "We" here doesn't definitely refer to

some "Joes and Maries", as you insist. But to the *spiritual

leaders* of this institution. The laws are to be respected from

the side of all. WHO are you, Srila prabhu, to make such

claims that would leave to the leaders of the institutions

of Gaudiya Math the open and undefined field of action in the

manner "Not obliged", while the leaders of the ISCKON institution

are excluded from the same?

 

If you can't respond reasonably and concretely, then you may

say nothing. That is fine. But please just don't start again

with simply screaming here "Slander!"

 

 

 

> The sum total of all this poor judgment and uncouth behavior -- initiated

> and sustained by the GBC -- is like a cloud of ignorance causing all kinds

> of inauspiciousness to ISKCON. Mahanidhi Prabhu is simply making himself

> another unconscious perpetrator of these misconceptions, half-truths and

> lies.

 

Very convincing "analyses", indeed (sic!). If I may suggest,

you could file all these phrases for the future use. So, all

you would need is just to substitute the name "Mahanidhi" for

some other name (depending of whom you would be "discussiong"

with at the time).

 

 

> If there has been retaliation from the other side (NM's followers), that

> has all been precipitated by the GBC.

 

What is the point of these throwing accusations on the way that

you are doing? Anybody can throw like that just anything on

anybody one likes, dear adherent "hard data."

 

And anyway, what is it this "other side (NM's followers)??

Wasn't that you to tell us to be not sectarian but universal?

It's all the same Hare Krsna movement, remember? Not "this"

side or "that" side. We are all on one side...

(I could deliver you the whole class here, right on the spot.)

 

 

> The situation has become

> complicated and unfortunate, but like Daksa's arena, the offenses were

> initiated by the foolishness of "Daksa" -- the GBC. We all know what

> happened to Daksa in the aftermath of insulting the great Vaisnava, Lord

> Siva. O wise souls, please beware!

>

 

Again, it is actually very simply. One "side" got to stop with

accusing and blaming the other "side". Let those more advanced

show the example.

 

Let's have some faith in God. It is Him who directs the conditioned

souls to His pure devotee, a maha-bhagavata. Don't think that it

is some "GBC" who is preventing that. But, yes, the issue seams

not to be so simple. What is it really that it makes it to become

"complicated and unfortunate"? The insisting of the ISCKON ultimate

authority to remain the ultimate authority in ISCKON, as set up

by Srila Prabhupada? Oh, these "Daksas", they got to have their

heads cut off for this offense of theirs!!!

(a little mahanidhi's head, as well)

 

 

 

> As (former) disciples of Harikesa Swami, you should also know that

> Harikesa was instrumental in promoting the current misguided GBC policies

> against Narayan Maharaja. Harikesa Maharaja -- most unfortunately, I might

> add -- is now suffering from the result of his offenses to both Narayan

> Maharaja and Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja by falling down from sannyasa --

> just as Bhavananda, Bhagavan and the rest of them have. Otherwise, how

> can you explain such a sudden departure from his outstanding performance

> in SP's mission? Only one cause: serious offenses to senior Vaisnavas.

>

 

When it suits to your purposes, then Harikesa was bogus all

the time and couple of thousands of devotees made the grave

mistake for accepting him for a guru. And when it suits to

your purposes, then Harikesa was of outstanding performance

in SP's mission, that all of *sudden* [after more than 20

years of such performance] made a disastrous step - *only one

cause*. How can we explain that, Srila prabhu? No need. You

just scream something on me, instead (I mean, give me your

"wornings")

 

BTW, are you maybe obsessed by Harikesa?

 

 

> Narayan Maharaja is not falling down from devotional service.

 

(nobody says he does, doesn't someone?)

 

But all in ISCKON are falling now. In the words of Narayana

Maharaja.

 

Yes, I am an apparadhi again. Your accusation stands.

 

 

> But Harikesa

> did. And Bhakti-Madhava Vaidhurya Maharaja, as well, who also falsely

> accused Narayan Maharaja publicly.

>

 

Oh, did Harikesa fall? Don't tell me that! Never heard such

a thing from anybody. And who else, you said? You must be

making some very relevant point here, we ought to assume.

 

 

> I pray at the feet of all the assembled devotees and caution everyone on

> this conference to exercise great care not to make further offense to

> highly senior Vaisnavas. It bodes ill for one and all.

>

 

Yes, this must be that point. It's a "Devil" point -- "You

folk got to be nice and accept NM and whatever he thinks, says

or does (and whatever we, the promoters of him, tell you) or

otherwise you gonna go to hell like those mentioned apparadhis".

 

 

>

> Get the facts straight. Hear from and observe our senior Gaudiya Vaisnavas

> first-hand. Then judge for yourselves.

 

 

You still owe to us the comment on *straight* facts.

That is, what is wrong for ISCKON leaders to apply the same

practice as in Gaudiya Matha, i.e. to not permit any ISCKON

preacher/leader give siksa/diksa to any of their members without

the permission of that Math's acarya.

 

Get the facts straight.

 

 

> Be spiritual scientists, not

> gossipmongers. Rely on your genuine realizations, not 2nd-hand hearsay and

> trumped-up accounts.

>

 

That is just fine. Still, you have not give any reply to

why the practice of ISCKON leaders/gurus is nonsense, while

they do just exactly the same way as Gaudiya Math?

 

Got something to say? Then do it.

 

 

> PS: Don't rely on what I say. Talk to Payonidhi Prabhu. Experience the

> truth of sadhu-sanga yourself. Krsne matir astu.

 

"PS: Talk to other party-activists of ours as well. We just got

the loudest from the other side to join our side!"

 

And I thought you have just advised us to not hear from the

second-hand sources.

 

---------------------------

 

So the struggle in this world for the dominance goes on, and on

and on... It's not happening so smooth, Srila prabhu. You got to

get those others down, first. Have some understanding. It is the

question of power and strength. A simple rule. Got more power,

you'll have them down and "cooperative" as per your demand.

Till then,

 

ALLAH AKBAR!

 

 

 

Abdullah das.

 

(I just got re-initiated by the local imam, so please don't

bother me anymore about your obsession, Harikesa M.)

[Guest guest]

>

> Personaly I did not read this comment of Srila Prabhu as an insult. When

> Jayatirtha left, I also realised that I had made a great mistake, and did

 

Do you think that your personal realization about your own life

is ought to be "also" the realization of everybody else?

That Jayatirtha is Harikesa?

That Samba is Mahanidhi?

That Samba's life is Mahanidhi's life?

 

What do we know about other peoples' life mistakes? Neither

you nor Srila das have absolutely NO idea what could come out

of me if I haven't done as I have done, 14 years ago. Not even

the *slightest* idea. But you got to instruct. What the grave

"mistake" I ought not to commit in my life. But you know

just NOTHING about my life condition from 14 years ago.

 

When shall we stop playing the role of the Supersoul in the

people's hearts? Can't do anything good by judging their lifes

and the life "mistakes" here, so leave it. Leave it to God.

Don't play with it.

 

 

 

>

> So It would seem appropriate that someone whose guru fell down, should

> feel, humility, remorse and introspection. Hey, I almost forgot, arent we

> all supposed to be possessed of these qualities all the time? What to

> speak of when we face a major reversal?

 

 

I nevertheless preserve the right for myself to differentiate

between an actual wellwisher of mine and somebody who is using

this most unfortunate incident of my life as simply the mean of

securing the position for himself when debating me, to shut me

down on that way.

(Please do not try to convince me that I am wrong in my perceptions

here.)

 

I do not want to listen about "humility" and "introspection"

from the people who do not even respect other people's individuality

and integrity. What was the mistake of my life, what was my poor

judgment, what is the expectation from me to behave now alike,...

All these is NOT the subject for Srila das (or anybody here)

to chew on it here in the public, for the sake of wining some

argument, or for any other sake anyway.

 

If someone honestly wants to point to me my grave mistakes

and help me in that regard, he will approach me -- PRIVATELY.

He will not splash his "siddhanta" on my nose in public, in a

screaming mood. And then right away the next one who happened

to have "HKS" next to his name (Harsi das) got to get the similar

treatment simply because he did not agree with whatever Srila das

thought he ought to. I am more than sure if I would proclaim

here how I am ready to feel up my "obvious vacuum" with Narayana

Maharaja, Srila would jubilantly shower me with the flowers,

instead. A parody, not more than that.

 

"Humility". Beat the people's head with it.

 

 

 

 

ys mnd