Authorities: Deserved of respect?

[Guest guest]

On 08 Jul 1999, Samba das wrote:

 

> I wonder how many of us accepted a guru with very little

> idea of actualy where they were at, other than a very superficial

> understanding, and the more 'important' consideration of what everyone else

> thought?

 

 

 

I think I probably accepted my guru on this basis, also. I really didn't know

anything about what a real guru was after my six months pre-temple reading and

six months of temple practice to get initiated. Srila Prabhupada "seemed" like

the true thing but it was more or less based upon trust in my fellow temple

inmates that this was the (only) way to go. Fortunately, it was A.C.

Bhaktivedanta Swami whom I accepted as my guru. Dumb luck? I my case, that

always seems to be the way. Thank God!

 

 

 

 

> To me the idea of encouraging 'quality time' between prospective guru

> disciples, is an absolute must. Let them get to know each other, and let

> them really ask piercing questions of each other. Actualy who can really get

> the courage to ask piercing questions of someone unless they have got to

> know each other somewhat. In this way, surely with the aid of a lot of

> background information on the ways in which people can put on very

> realisitic facades of spiritual perfection, a prospective disciple would

> have a lot more chance of choosing a suitable person.

 

 

 

I think we have to somehow agree on what a "suitable person" is and for what

purpose we are expecting that person to fulfill. We all know that Srila

Prabhupada and scripture recommends only accepting an uttama-adhikari as guru.

This is a sore subject to discuss it seems, but of utmost importance obviously

in light of our past experiences.

 

We know Srila Prabhupada is an uttama-adhikari, maha-bhagavata guru. He is

still fully capable of giving his association in the form of his vani, his

books, which he told us is more important than his vapu, personal association.

He can act as guru for anyone who takes this association. This is, of course,

siksa-guru, to get technical about it (which I don't always like to stress in

the beginning as Srila Prabhupada doesn't even mention siksa/diksa in the

entire Bhagavad-gita As It Is).

 

When a prospective candidate comes along they should be directed to Srila

Prabhupada as their "main" guru right from the start. All guru-puja should be

directed to Srila Prabhupada. He can be their "main" guru (siksa) for the rest

of their lives. They can get all the answers they need for their successful

spiritual life from his books because he said that this is the case.

 

This would require our actually and truly agreeing to the parampara program of

siksa oriented prioritization of efforts; everyone agrees to make Srila

Prabhupada the center and main daily focus of whatever guru-puja activities

may be prescribed (morning/evening, etc.). 95% of every ISKCON devotee's

guru-related thinking and worship is directed towards the unquestioned

uttama-adhikari Srila Prabhupada.

 

Again, we MUST agree that siksa is the MAIN guru relationship that every

disciple should develop and that siksa association CAN be gotten through Srila

Prabhupada's vani; his books and representatives who repeat his books

teachings exactly as they are written. Each disciple must take it upon

him/herself to seek this association by reading and hearing from Srila

Prabhupada.

 

This is the exact same program which all, or most of us, Prabhupada disciples

followed when he was "here" even though we never had his "personal" (vapu)

association. If anyone had complained that they wanted to see and talk

personally with Srila Prabhupada, either Srila Prabhupada or the senior

disciples would say, "No. He is too busy with his spiritual duties of

translating the books. You can associate with him by following his prescribed

program of guru-puja and reading his books. Srila Prabhupada "knows" that you

are serving him." This was accepted by everyone.

 

Now, diksa. What are the qualifications necessary to act as a diksa guru?

This I have never seen specifically written, but it would appear from the past

parampara histories that the diksa guru was not always required to be of the

uttama/maha-bhagavata status, especially if no person had those qualifications

in the world at that time. Yet diksa, Pancharatrika-vidhi ritual ceremonies,

still can take place in the formal manner just like Deity worship.

 

A prospective disciple, who has developed a sincere and earnest relationship

with an uttama-adhikari siksa guru like Srila Prabhupada, can be initiated in

a formal ceremony by a designated family, dynasty, city, regional or

organizational diksa guru and thus follow the parampara system. He can then

continue with his parampara prioritized siksa relationship with Srila

Prabhupada, directing all his worship and study towards the unquestioned

uttama-adhikari. This is not disrepectful of the formal diksa guru in anyway

and at the same time preserves the prescription to accept only an

uttama-adhikari for a guru.

 

 

Krsna did not show disrepect to his diksa guru Ugrasena by accepting Sandipani

Muni as His siksa guru.

 

I think something along these ines could alleviate many "guru" problems.

 

Again, we have to truly and actually implement the program in ISKCON that:

guru means siksa guru (primarily; 95-99%). And that siksa guru association can

be gotten through Srila Prabhupada's vani; his books and honest

representatives teaching his exact written words. If we can accept this then

we have the perfect guru for everyone for a long time; A.C. Bhaktivedanta

Swami Prabhupada and at the same time we can continue to perform the

Pancharatrika rituals of diksa and Deity worship as we have been.